17 replies to this topic

[Kaelthalass]

Hello everyone. I m a bit confused and unfamiliar with the search in here and a newcomer. If there would anyone with a clause by clause comparison for BRC against FSSC 22000 standarts it would be really nice. I checked for some topics and couldn't find one. The hardest part is i need to make a cross reference list for the BRC, IFS and FSSC 22000. I found a BRC vs IFS draft but couldn't find a FSSC one; any help is appreciated.

[SQFconsultant]

Hello everyone. I m a bit confused and unfamiliar with the search in here and a newcomer. If there would anyone with a clause by clause comparison for BRC against FSSC 22000 standarts it would be really nice. I checked for some topics and couldn't find one. The hardest part is i need to make a cross reference list for the BRC, IFS and FSSC 22000. I found a BRC vs IFS draft but couldn't find a FSSC one; any help is appreciated.

 

Take a look at http://www.MyGFSI.com

[bacon]

FAO did a paper on this (all of the GFSI benchmarks at the time) back in 2005... I dont know if they have done it again recently... and I have an old one from when BRC was back on issue 5 vs. SQF 2000 Code – Level 2  vs. Dutch HACCP - Option B  vs. FSSC - 22000  vs.  Global Gap - Fruit & Veg vs. IFS Standard - Version 5
 

But nothing current. I stopped focusing on clause-for-clause and just keep up with current events that drive the standard changes as they are getting so much technically similar in their requirements (not 100% but enough). Best to just read thorough ISO 22K and PAS220 (or its current incarnation).

 

-B

[Kaelthalass]

thank you for your replies. 

But i think i should explain why i need this kind of a list.

We are currently maintain BRC, IFS and FSSC 22000 and additional ISO 9001,14001,18001 standards.

Our issue is the internal audit checklists.

Our approach to the situation is standart based checklists(which could go 8-9 different checklists to fill), auditors suggested making it simpler so we try making an all in checklist which could answer all of the standard clauses with simple questions to ask, records to see or visual checks.

We used the ISO standarts addition cross reference lists but i think everything mixing up so bad.

Somehow i will manage to produce a list, but any help is really appreciated.

 

Thank you for your replies.

 

[Zahn.R]

if you have electronic manuals of all the standards you can group all the clauses in the relevant categories ie  Traceability, Non conformances, etc etc.  If everything is grouped it will be easier to start the checklist from there, you wont miss something.  Otherwise you will have to do a checklist of one standard and take one standard at a time to merge the different clauses into the one main checklist.

[Mr. Incognito]

Wow that's a lot of standards to work with...

[Charles.C]

Wow that's a lot of standards to work with...

 

Too right, calls for a Department

 

@Kaelthalass - Frankly i think someone, ie the auditor, is playing mind games with you. Maybe the lunch was lacking in caviar. IMO the effort is debatably not worth the likely usage of the end-result. Of course, if a Company promotion is involved .....

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[bacon]

if you have electronic manuals of all the standards you can group all the clauses in the relevant categories ie  Traceability, Non conformances, etc etc.  If everything is grouped it will be easier to start the checklist from there, you wont miss something.  Otherwise you will have to do a checklist of one standard and take one standard at a time to merge the different clauses into the one main checklist.

 

Too right Vineyards.  Really the GFSI benchmarking is in fact streamlining Food Safety and Quality Management concepts. It is merely finding the conceptual common denominator that all of the schemes you adhere to have in common, then organizing your FSMS internal audits according to your structure.

 

This is no easy task but making addition cross reference lists to other standard is not advised (managing changes with all of the cross-referencing in those schemes is just not worth it). Serving the auditor everything on a silver platter is pretty cool when it works but may not be worth the effort; besides, make the auditor work a little bit.

 

-B 

[sozcan]

thank you for your replies. 

But i think i should explain why i need this kind of a list.

We are currently maintain BRC, IFS and FSSC 22000 and additional ISO 9001,14001,18001 standards.

Our issue is the internal audit checklists.

Our approach to the situation is standart based checklists(which could go 8-9 different checklists to fill), auditors suggested making it simpler so we try making an all in checklist which could answer all of the standard clauses with simple questions to ask, records to see or visual checks.

We used the ISO standarts addition cross reference lists but i think everything mixing up so bad.

Somehow i will manage to produce a list, but any help is really appreciated.

 

Thank you for your replies.

If you could provide an update on how you prepare a joint checklist on standards, I will be appreciated.

Thanks

[Kaelthalass]

Here is a draft we produced. I don't think sharing it would do any harm.

i need to imply that using these checklists during an internal audit is hard.

Once you enter the premises for internal audit, you go along with your eyes, ears and tongue mostly.

Checking these clauses takes too much time to finish internal audits. What we usually do is check the area for signs, later control the checklist whenever possible, like an office inside the premises.

Still, i hope it helps.

Oh, btw it is on turkish. But i presume you could use the clause numbers from the tabs.

Attached Files

•  Draft.xls   1.25MB   359 downloads

[Simon]

Thanks Kaelthalass, anyone can translate or use google translate with some time?

[Charles.C]

Here is a draft we produced. I don't think sharing it would do any harm.

i need to imply that using these checklists during an internal audit is hard.

Once you enter the premises for internal audit, you go along with your eyes, ears and tongue mostly.

Checking these clauses takes too much time to finish internal audits. What we usually do is check the area for signs, later control the checklist whenever possible, like an office inside the premises.

Still, i hope it helps.

Oh, btw it is on turkish. But i presume you could use the clause numbers from the tabs.

 

Dear Kaelthalass,

 

Thks for the draft.  I tried Google on (a) sec 5.1 (cell i4)  and (b) first half of sec.7.4.4 (cell i55)  >>

 

"5.1 The commitment of the Board
Top management, food safety management systems and implementation of continuous improvement of the efficiency of the system by
provide evidence of commitment on improving the following;
a) food safety, supported by the organization's business goals to show that,
b) In addition to meeting the customer's requirements related to food safety, be reported to the organization the importance of meeting the legal and regulatory requirements and the requirements of this standard,
c) Establishment of food safety policies,
d) the maintenance of Management Review,
e) ensure the availability of resources. "

 

 

7.4.4 Selection and evaluation of control measures
Article based on the risk assessment 7.4.3.'t described in the prevention of the danger, which allows to eliminate or reduce to acceptable levels, or their appropriate combination of control measures must be selected.
In this selection, each of the control measures as defined in Section 7.3.5.2, determined to be revised according to the activity against a food safety hazard.
The selected control measures should be classified according to their need to be managed by the operational PRPs or HACCP plan. ".

 

 

These look nearly identical to the iso22000 standard itself which is a similar approach to many other FS checklists.

 

Subsequent rather randomly duplicated numbers plus some  > the iso22000 list maximum [8.5.2] look like Prerequisites. Maybe iso22002-1 ??

 

Thks again.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Kaelthalass]

Charles C you are right.

If you could'nt find the clause of ISO 22000 doesn't fitting the regular clauses, it is exactly as you thought, they belong to the ISO 22002-1 standart(most of them marked as PAS).

 

Btw use this with judgment of your own, this work is rather thoughts of our food safety professionals, including mine.

[triona.naidoo]

Hello everyone. I m a bit confused and unfamiliar with the search in here and a newcomer. If there would anyone with a clause by clause comparison for BRC against FSSC 22000 standarts it would be really nice. I checked for some topics and couldn't find one. The hardest part is i need to make a cross reference list for the BRC, IFS and FSSC 22000. I found a BRC vs IFS draft but couldn't find a FSSC one; any help is appreciated.

Hi Kaelthalass....would you mind sharing your BRC vs IFS comparison? Im hoping it's in English.

 

Thank you 

[Charles.C]

Hi Kaelthalass....would you mind sharing your BRC vs IFS comparison? Im hoping it's in English.

 

Thank you 

 

Post # 10-12 ??

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Aravind kannan]

Here is a draft we produced. I don't think sharing it would do any harm.

i need to imply that using these checklists during an internal audit is hard.

Once you enter the premises for internal audit, you go along with your eyes, ears and tongue mostly.

Checking these clauses takes too much time to finish internal audits. What we usually do is check the area for signs, later control the checklist whenever possible, like an office inside the premises.

Still, i hope it helps.

Oh, btw it is on turkish. But i presume you could use the clause numbers from the tabs.

Thanks for the document it helps really 

[EDnutrition]

There must be something in the water because I have also been asked by an auditor to produce a clause by clause comparison of BRCV7 vs. FSSC 22000. This is proving to be a VERY difficult task and although GFSI has a summary document with top line differences/similarities between the two I cannot find a previously published clause by clause comparison. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am only just after starting my current position and this is one of the tasks that has been landed on my desk.

[Charles.C]

There must be something in the water because I have also been asked by an auditor to produce a clause by clause comparison of BRCV7 vs. FSSC 22000. This is proving to be a VERY difficult task and although GFSI has a summary document with top line differences/similarities between the two I cannot find a previously published clause by clause comparison. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am only just after starting my current position and this is one of the tasks that has been landed on my desk.

 

hi EDnutition,

 

Unfortunately I don't think brc6 (or brc5)  vs fssc22000 (or iso22000) exists on this forum. Hopefully someone will prove me wrong.

 

Offhand the nearest i can remember is brc4 vs iso22000 (and several others) which i have attached below.

 

i suppose you realize that, inter alia, the comparison is between 2 considerably different haccp systems. Thanks to oprp.

 

 Multi-Comparison FS Standards ca 2010.xls   73KB   307 downloads

 

PS - Welcome to the forum !