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#1 Loren

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 04:29 PM

Hi All,

 

Have your Senior Management Team undergo training with what certification are you trying to achieve? We're trying to pursue BRC and I want the Management to get trained with the standard so they will understand and put their full commitment on this project.

 

 

Please help, every time I approach the management, I feel down.

 

Thanks in Advance!

 

Lorena



#2 Snookie

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:52 PM

In one company I worked at many of the senior managers did the two day BRC training.  In this case not sure that it helped but they did get the training.  In that case the company was under so many difficult challenges, that the non-stop fire fighting made any improvement very difficult.  Usually though is should help.  Don't know how big your company is but getting management support and buy in is key to success.  Generally once they understand the challenges it should help getting roadblocks removed. 

 

It may be easier to help if we had more information about the size of your company and what kind of product you make. 


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#3 Loren

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:47 PM

We are making packaging materials for food manufacturers. We're operating 2 shifts-12 hours with approximately 150 employees. I was told I am the 5th person given this task-obviously the 4 persons didn't made it because of lack of management support (they said). and that's what I'm experiencing now. I'm afraid I would be the 5th unsuccessful person. I want this job, I want to do it for my carrier and it would be embarrassing not to make it.



#4 fgjuadi

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:12 PM

We are making packaging materials for food manufacturers. We're operating 2 shifts-12 hours with approximately 150 employees. I was told I am the 5th person given this task-obviously the 4 persons didn't made it because of lack of management support (they said). and that's what I'm experiencing now. I'm afraid I would be the 5th unsuccessful person. I want this job, I want to do it for my carrier and it would be embarrassing not to make it.

Just follow them around until they ask you what you want and then force them to schedule an outlook event for half an hour.  If you smell bad they'll take note of your hoovering more quickly and do what you want to get you away from them, so try not showering for a few days first,.  Have a powerpoint ready to go, pull them aside, and then click through it.  

 

A short powerpoint or training you create should be sufficient, the challenge is getting corporate for half an hour. 


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#5 Loren

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 08:38 PM

Hahaha..that's funny advise :roflmao: ..I make sure I always have cologne every day..



#6 bacon

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:48 PM

I see that this post ought to be in the "Senior Management Commitment" section :ejut: http://www.ifsqn.com...ent-commitment/

 

George Howlett posted a good post "Barriers to effective food safety management" on the topic http://www.ifsqn.com...ety-management/

 

That aside, if you do manage to round up Senior Management and get them to Commitment to meetings, please note that many of the clauses can be covered/hit with one stone. You can have an overview of the GFSI benchmark you are adhering to (BRC in your case), go over Trend Analysis for NC's and Customer complaints (and have some brain storming on what to do about bad/poor trends) this latter one will tie into Continual Improvement and SMC. 

 

Say you have shoddy receiving coverage in your dock loading area... you have complaints about insects on your produce, infestation trends from your Pest Control recordings and NC's from your internal AND 3rd party Audit. Have a quarterly meeting with SM (Senior Management) about these problems... and about Senior Management Commitment, Continual Improvement, Pareto analysis with customer Complains and Internal NC's.... how Issue 7 is focusing so much on Supplier Approval and what/how SM is gonna do to prepare for it, etc, etc.

 

Now how many BRC clauses have you covered with that one quarterly meeting?

I can think about 5 or 6 right off the top of my head... maybe more. :drunk:

 

That is how I have handled it with BRC and SQF with companies with great (or semi-great) success.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

 

 

 


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#7 Snookie

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:38 PM

We are making packaging materials for food manufacturers. We're operating 2 shifts-12 hours with approximately 150 employees. I was told I am the 5th person given this task-obviously the 4 persons didn't made it because of lack of management support (they said). and that's what I'm experiencing now. I'm afraid I would be the 5th unsuccessful person. I want this job, I want to do it for my carrier and it would be embarrassing not to make it.

 

For any quality system to work there must be buy in and support from highest reaches of management.  There will be only minimal success at best without it.  So should you not be able to get a system implemented and certified,  it would not you that would be unsuccessful.  It is absolutely a failure of management.   This is no task.  This is a huge project.  Find ways to communicate the enormity of what needs to be done and but how it can be done with the proper support.  If in the end it doesn't work....it will not because of you. 


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#8 Avila

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:58 PM

My experience in proposing new project or ideas to senior management is using "infiltrative approaching".

Meet and talk firstly about this to one or two of them who have open minded and interactive attitude. Once s(he) get approached and willing to support our ideas, it would be easier to present it in management meeting as we are not standing alone anymore. Never bring it to forum before get supported from at least one of them

Good luck



#9 Loren

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:57 PM

Thank you for your advise snookie and baron!

 

Those are good advise but I have deeper major problem here as below:

 

1. We don't have clear organization-our HR Manager is doing Accounting job

2. We don't have safety Officer/person

3. We don't have Quality Manager-quality system is not clear, production is running 2 shifts without qa person

 

That means having them commit to this project is getting those people first, am I right?



#10 fgjuadi

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 01:28 AM

 

Those are good advise but I have deeper major problem here as below:

 

...

 

3. We don't have Quality Manager-quality system is not clear, production is running 2 shifts without qa person

 

That means having them commit to this project is getting those people first, am I right?

:eek_yello: Ah.  Who are you then?  Perhaps a good candidate?

 

No QA and that big! Wow!  You're going to need more than a half hour power point for that one.   I was kidding about not being able to get a busy CEO's attention before but sounds like they need a wake up call. 


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#11 Snookie

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 02:21 AM

......but sounds like they need a wake up call. 

 

Thermonuclear wake up call!


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#12 bacon

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:41 AM

Thank you for your advise snookie and baron!
 
Those are good advise but I have deeper major problem here as below:
 
1. We don't have clear organization-our HR Manager is doing Accounting job
2. We don't have safety Officer/person
3. We don't have Quality Manager-quality system is not clear, production is running 2 shifts without qa person
 
That means having them commit to this project is getting those people first, am I right?


Ummm, given these facts... I'd recommend perhaps an easier audit standard to break your SM in. A GFSI benchmark is going to be a culture shock for your company. Resources from company SM = $; basically the tools (payroll, expertise, software, consultancy, etc)... This is going to be the largest hurdle to get their buy in for.

How much will it be worth to them?
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#13 trubertq

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 11:38 AM

Who is pushing the requirement for certification?

 

If it's customer driven then you need to explain in words of 2 syllables or less that they will lose business if they don't shape up. For them to achieve certification they need to realise that they need the skills within in company to do it.

 

How on earth have you been getting away without a Quality system for this long? There must surely be something even if it isn't documented.....


I'm entitled to my opinion, even a stopped clock is right twice a day

#14 Loren

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

yes my greatest obstacle! They call me 3rd Party Certification .... (they don't want to give everyone titles also)  :silly: but my voice/suggestions are hardly ever heard :helpplease:

 

This is my real situation here but I'm doing a great job, in fact I am almost done with all major documents I need to make, I need a review but it's hard to get someone to review. How much more when we need to implement them?

 

I would still keep pushing this matter. If in the future I would success, I'm a superwoman :spoton:.

 

I would keep pushing them to get a QA Manager and HR Person..



#15 Snookie

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:46 PM

A good first step especially if management has blinders on is to have a GAP audit done.  A consultant or auditor from the company will come in analyze what you or don't have and give the company a report.  It could be a very useful tool in opening managements eyes as to the scope of what this really requires.  This will also serve as a review for what you have done.


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#16 bacon

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

Please see my post on another similar subject: http://www.ifsqn.com...-for-brc/page-2

 


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#17 Loren

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:18 PM

@ Trubertq, I just started in this company last February to handle this certification program. They have quality manager with I guess a business ad background who told me to "make it simple" and he "wants to win without fighting" lol!! that day I know he knows nothing. He's handling the quality department for 5 years but when I asked for records there's nothing. Anyway, this guy has been moved to sales department like maybe 2 months ago and ever since there's no qa manager. When I ask the VP about the status of qa, he told me "it's a shadow".

They knew they need it so bad because customers are demanding it but they wanted to have it in a way that there is no major change in the company practices.



#18 Loren

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:30 PM

@ Snookie, yes that's a good idea. Working in quality for more than 10 years I knew when I started working here I am starting at ground zero. So I decided to populate procedures and instructions until now with just "wishful thinking" :) because they are not in practice. At first I asked them to review each document i finished but it created an overwhelming reaction so i decided to just keep them with me for now.

My idea was it is a waste of time and money to bring in a consultant/auditor because we don't have anything to audit. So I give them a commitment to at least finish generating major documents by September so we can start a review.

Once the review is done, we will start implementing them at least slowly and then get a consultant to check where we're at.

 

What do you think about that?



#19 Snookie

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

@ Trubertq, I just started in this company last February to handle this certification program. They have quality manager with I guess a business ad background who told me to "make it simple" and he "wants to win without fighting" lol!! that day I know he knows nothing. He's handling the quality department for 5 years but when I asked for records there's nothing. Anyway, this guy has been moved to sales department like maybe 2 months ago and ever since there's no qa manager. When I ask the VP about the status of qa, he told me "it's a shadow".

They knew they need it so bad because customers are demanding it but they wanted to have it in a way that there is no major change in the company practices.

 

No paperwork....imagine a recall would be terrifying.  I like what John Rushkin said, "Quality is never an accident, it is always the result of intelligent effort".  Sadly doesn't seem like gets that a intelligent well designed quality/safety system could also yield improved processes which could improve the bottom line and provides liability protection if a customer decides to sue them. 

  

 

@ Snookie, yes that's a good idea. Working in quality for more than 10 years I knew when I started working here I am starting at ground zero. So I decided to populate procedures and instructions until now with just "wishful thinking" :) because they are not in practice. At first I asked them to review each document i finished but it created an overwhelming reaction so i decided to just keep them with me for now.

My idea was it is a waste of time and money to bring in a consultant/auditor because we don't have anything to audit. So I give them a commitment to at least finish generating major documents by September so we can start a review.

Once the review is done, we will start implementing them at least slowly and then get a consultant to check where we're at.

 

What do you think about that?

When I come into a company with very little, I usually build the system and  I often us the GAP audit to see test the system before we go live with the actual site audit.  The value of a consultant when there is nothing to review is that it can drive home to those who are not getting it the scope of what needs to be done. 

 

If reviewing a few documents at a time was overwhelming suspect that review the whole system could put them in cardiac arrest.  :shutup: It sounds to me that you have a plan.   Please check and let us know how it is going. 


Edited by Snookie, 14 July 2014 - 07:16 PM.

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#20 Loren

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

Thanks for your advise! I guess it's time for me to discuss with them again regarding a pre-assessment audit :)



#21 djfitz1231

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:25 AM

In one company I worked at many of the senior managers did the two day BRC training.  In this case not sure that it helped but they did get the training.  In that case the company was under so many difficult challenges, that the non-stop fire fighting made any improvement very difficult.  Usually though is should help.  Don't know how big your company is but getting management support and buy in is key to success.  Generally once they understand the challenges it should help getting roadblocks removed. 

 

It may be easier to help if we had more information about the size of your company and what kind of product you make. 

Where did you get the training from? I need to get this started at my facility.



#22 Snookie

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:48 PM

Where did you get the training from? I need to get this started at my facility.

 

I don't remember which company we used, but we had enough people that company paid for a trainer to come to the corporate location and it was done it large groups.  Many of the organizations who do the training have this capability.   We set up management to get the two day training while anyone who was going to be working in the system such as the quality department got the 4 day course.


Edited by Snookie, 16 July 2014 - 03:49 PM.

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