20 replies to this topic

[jkoratich712]

We have first aid kits throughout the plant, hanging on the wall. In them we have a wide variety of supplies, including burn gel, eye wash, bandages (and all that goes with it - tape, bandaids, gauze, stuff to wrap with), hydrocortisone cream, etc. Basically we have everything except the kitchen sink in them! These boxes are not secure in any way, and anyone has access to them.

 

Do we need to include these items into our chemical control program and have them secured?

[Snookie]

Interesting question.  I have never included them in my chemical control and never had a problem.  Others may have had different experiences.  In one company we did keep a list of what supplies were removed and by who, but we did not keep an accurate inventory.   I am curious to hear what others say. 

[Caboose]

I would say yes, there is a potential for those chemicals to be used for sabotage purposes (food defense) so they should be controlled in some manner. 

 

The issue would be that they can't really be locked up because then someone might need them and can't access them/find the key etc.

 

Maybe use some kind of tamper evident closure (something like a zip-tie but easier to remove in the event of an "emergency") that would show if the case had been opened? Make a register of all the chemicals inside and add it to a monitoring program to check the closure daily/weekly/monthly based on a risk assessment? Would give you lots of due diligence without adding much work (I think but who knows even the smallest changes have the potential to cause someone a headache).

 

Example: https://www.google.c...ticker&tbm=shop

 

Fill in your own words "Emergency use only, notify management if broken" or something like that.

Give employee training on new stickers...I like to cover all my bases with a paper trail

[Shyguy77]

We have three first aid kits in our factory, one is the lab, one is the production supervisor office and one in the first-aid room.  While we don't keep quite as strict control over these (under lock and Key)  as we do our other chemicals, we do keep them out of the production area (unless needed). The chemicals in the kits are on our chemical registry and we do maintain current MSDS's for all of them. We don't have an inventory control per say (writing down what and how much gets taken) employee's/supervisors come and grab what's needed and all injuries are recorded, but we do work with a fist-aid supply company that comes in twice a month to do inventory and resupply orders.

[jkoratich712]

Thanks for the feedback. My previous employer had a first aid room and all supplies were kept in it. It was locked and only those certified in first aid/cpr had keys to get in it, so the 'chemicals' were controlled. Where I am at now, they are everywhere (I may be exaggerating) and it got me thinking about how to 'control' them. I am suggesting eliminating some and only having 2-3 in designated, non-production area's. It will be our first step and then decide what to do from there. We do have MSDS for all of them, so we have a start!

[fgjuadi]

We have a 3rd party that stocks & records inventory for us (Grainger, Zee, etc have these services). The 3rd party notifies us if usage is wildly different, but they don't come often enough to be a good counter measure for Food Defense

 

Chemicals in the first aid cabinet do not need to be controlled via Haz Com, so I haven't controllled them for other purposes (no SDS needed etc)

 

We don't allow oral medication on the floor but I do want to make sure my employees have access to these things if they need them, so no lock either.

[jel]

The control of these materials should not be through chemical control, but through control measures derived from risk assessment considering the potential of acts of sabotage and/or terrorism

[Slab]

I'm curious as to what potentially hazardous medical aids are available to production personnel unsupervised? 

 

As mentioned these items are not regulated by OSHA but FDA and do not require MSDS. Why fret when you are regulatory compliant? Your main concern may be adhesive bandages and metal detection: these should be logged by lot and tested against your metal detector. Oral medications should not be available to personnel without supervision for obvious reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony-C]

Where possible I would only have the basics on site, no medicines or creams.

 

I've always had first aid cabinets locked with only first aiders and supervisors having access, that way easier to control incidents and log usage (plasters detectable and logged).

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[Ag52014]

Where possible I would only have the basics on site, no medicines or creams.

I've always had first aid cabinets locked with only first aiders and supervisors having access, that way easier to control incidents and log usage (plasters detectable and logged).

Regards,

Tony

I agree with this. This is what we have at our site and it seems to work perfectly fine :)

[cazyncymru]

I agree totally with Tony

 

Our first aid kits don't contain any gels or creams, and are checked monthly to ensure fully stocked.

 

We don't even give out an aspirin!

 

Caz x

[Snookie]

We don't even give out an aspirin!

 

Caz x

Caz, please what I am about to say is not directed at you or your company.

 

Many companies are this way.  Ironically many of these same companies will have a A.E.D.  which I find interesting.  If you have a person experiencing what may be a heart attack, giving an aspirin right away can prevent substantial damage.  So companies won't give out an aspirin but will shock you back.  While I understand in this litigious society why companies are reluctant, still it seems crazy when the value of a aspirin in a situation of stroke or heart attack is priceless in the long term outcome. 

 

The other necessary item in a medical kit is a sugar tablet or syrup.  Again in an extreme low blood sugar reaction it can mean the difference of life or death. 

[SpursGirl]

Hi

 

We have first aid kits located in the factory that hold non chemical supplied such as band aids and bandages. We also hold first aid chemicals (gels, sprays) but these are located in a locked box in the HR office. Only specific people have the key to this box and if used must fill out a form to say what was used and circumstances of use, this is then reviewed by QA to make sure there is no risk to product and we run a audit of the contents to make sure nothing is missing that has not been accounted for. We also hold MSDS sheets for all the chemicals in the box.

 

I only implemented this in January after our SQF audit where all the first aid suppliers were available to all staff, the auditor said we werre 'walking a fine line' with regards food defence and chemical control with the open access medical supplies.

 

S

[Tony-C]

Caz, please what I am about to say is not directed at you or your company.

 

Many companies are this way.  Ironically many of these same companies will have a A.E.D.  which I find interesting.  If you have a person experiencing what may be a heart attack, giving an aspirin right away can prevent substantial damage.  So companies won't give out an aspirin but will shock you back.  While I understand in this litigious society why companies are reluctant, still it seems crazy when the value of a aspirin in a situation of stroke or heart attack is priceless in the long term outcome. 

 

The other necessary item in a medical kit is a sugar tablet or syrup.  Again in an extreme low blood sugar reaction it can mean the difference of life or death. 

 

In the UK generally they have pretty good first aid facilities and first aiders but also controls on what is freely available on the shop floor. Medicines should only be administered by properly trained staff and this helps to achieve that. Normally in the situations you describe the emergency services would provide advice on the phone before they arrive. Your advice about heart attacks is relevant providing the patient isn't allergic to aspirin.

 

In my experience supervisors tend to be aware of any medical issues with staff and are briefed how to deal with them.

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[fgjuadi]

I only implemented this in January after our SQF audit where all the first aid suppliers were available to all staff, the auditor said we werre 'walking a fine line' with regards food defence and chemical control with the open access medical supplies.

 

S

 

I understand this defense and I don't want to sound lax of the food defense side but -

After witnessing a couple amputations and a nasty forklift drop that ended in an concussion, during night shift in a huge 24/7 facility,

 

  leaving first aid kits locked.  I keep first aid, blood borne pathogen, and fire extinguishers easy to use. I don't keep anything they can wait on on the floor.

 

Could an employee bludegon me to death with a fire extinguisher?  Sure.  Do I want that fire extinguisher to be locked in an HR Office when I need it? Nope.  I guess when your fellow coworker is gushing blood you could wait until a supervisor on the other side of the building came back from break and got a key or until the paramedics show up to help.  Or you could have your handy blood soaking powder and auto clave bag ready to go.  Could someone dastardly rip off a piece of bio hazard auto clave bag and throw it in the product stream?  I believe they could.  Is that risk great enough to expose my employees to a situation where they don't have adequate health supplies?  Nah. 

[SpursGirl]

Hi Magenta

 

I totally agree - it is important to have adequate medical supplies on hand in case of an emergency.

 

In my case we are a very small facility so it is no more than 2 minutes to get to the HR office.But I guess 2 minutes is still a long time if you have just lobbed off your finger!

 

I do keep blood spillage kits, bandages, gauzes etc available in the production area - it is only the ' medicinal chemicals' that I keep locked up as in our kits we have hydrogen peroxide, burn creams, pain relief pills ect etc available for employees.

 

I did discuss this at length with our SQF auditor as I feel employee H&S is as important as food defence (if not more so) but she was very clear that at her next visit she would expect to see some 'controls' in place.

 

I also have had some interesting discussions on employees carrying epi-pens with them (we have a highly allergic individual in our facility) and likewise the storing of insulin at work for another diabetic worker.

 

Fire extinguishers are availale in all areas. I hope that no one get the idea to hit me over the head with one of those   

 

S

[cazyncymru]

Caz, please what I am about to say is not directed at you or your company.

 

Many companies are this way.  Ironically many of these same companies will have a A.E.D.  which I find interesting.  If you have a person experiencing what may be a heart attack, giving an aspirin right away can prevent substantial damage.  So companies won't give out an aspirin but will shock you back.  While I understand in this litigious society why companies are reluctant, still it seems crazy when the value of a aspirin in a situation of stroke or heart attack is priceless in the long term outcome. 

 

The other necessary item in a medical kit is a sugar tablet or syrup.  Again in an extreme low blood sugar reaction it can mean the difference of life or death. 

 

 

Oh no offence taken! I'm a bit more thick skinned than that!!

 

It's as Tony says, in the UK we wouldn't be permitted to do that.

 

As for sweets for low blood sugars, as an insulin dependant diabetic, I have a good stash in my draw, although the emergency isn't restricted to hypo's!!

 

Caz x

[Snookie]

Oh no offence taken! I'm a bit more thick skinned than that!!

 

It's as Tony says, in the UK we wouldn't be permitted to do that.

 

As for sweets for low blood sugars, as an insulin dependant diabetic, I have a good stash in my draw, although the emergency isn't restricted to hypo's!!

 

Caz x

 

Chocolate is an essential nutrient and one of the four basic groups.  It has also prevented the harm due many individuals over the years.   Yes, understand medical professionals issue as well.  While any person is technically covered under the "good Samaritan" clauses, many are still hesitant to act.  Some with good reason. 

[fgjuadi]

I don't know why, but I could talk about this all day.  Probably because every one else controls their medical cabinets XD

 

 

Hi Magenta

 

I do keep blood spillage kits, bandages, gauzes etc available in the production area - it is only the ' medicinal chemicals' that I keep locked up as in our kits we have hydrogen peroxide, burn creams, pain relief pills ect etc available for employees.

 

I did discuss this at length with our SQF auditor as I feel employee H&S is as important as food defence (if not more so) but she was very clear that at her next visit she would expect to see some 'controls' in place.

 

 in order for food sabotage to work the employee has to have access, and it has to go unnoticed for long enough for the food to be released - I like Caboose's idea of a sticker seal a lot - if you check it on your way out the door every day and it's sealed no problem.  You'd have to do inventory every time the seal broke though. 

 

I'd also imagine they are in tiny containers -1 oz, maybe 4 oz at the most.   Is 4oz of burn cream going into a 500lb batch going to harm the public?  Yes, it's adulterated product, yes, it's a chemical contaminate, but is it food safety, or quality at that point? I don't want bits of flies in my product either, but I let employees use doors to enter the building, because even though flies can get in, that's not a serious risk.    We allow medical alert tags, even though they might fall in the product. 

 

Aren't our food defense program meant to protect us from someone dumping gallons of bleach or introducing something harmful?  It's not that you aren't taking Food Defense seriously, it's that you've taken it SO seriously you did a risk assessment, and you realized the probability and severity of 1 oz of eye wash entering the product was a lower risk than an employee dumping cleaning chemicals, and you locked up the cleaning chemicals

 

 

 

 

I also have had some interesting discussions on employees carrying epi-pens with them (we have a highly allergic individual in our facility) and likewise the storing of insulin at work for another diabetic worker.

 

Fire extinguishers are availale in all areas. I hope that no one get the idea to hit me over the head with one of those   

 

S

 

In America, we say -  "You can take my epi-pen form my COLD DEAD HANDS, AUDITOR."  Then we adjust our cowboy hats and and eat Xtreme food with extra cheese and bacon. I guess if you wanted to be melodramatic and manipulative, you could pull the allergenic employee into the conference room and ask the auditor to explain to her that in order to work at an organization certified by the standard, she must be willing to risk an easily preventable death, and she probably isn't going to get any sweet hazard pay out of it. 

 

Maybe not hit over the head with an extinguisher - according to this informative article, they can also be used to knock back an unwanted intruder  -  http://www.theonion....spraying,36149/

 

 

.  If you have a person experiencing what may be a heart attack, giving an aspirin right away can prevent substantial damage.  So companies won't give out an aspirin but will shock you back.

 

This has always been a "Me as Hero" fantasy of mine!  Don't worry, grand ma, take a Bayer!  Also, administering the Heimlich, or recognizing a car from the Amber Alert, or taking a jar of little white pills from one old man and putting them under the tongue of another old man.    I'd imagine TSA agents have the same day dreams about finding a terrorist. We have a shock box as well...but I wouldn't try to use it on someone who could talk/swallow and it never goes that far in my day dream cuz I already saved them like a hero by then .

 

Our 3rd party signed up for all liability etc from the use of its products (I wonder if this covers terrorism) so we don't have to worry about legalities of giving out OTC drugs.  And they take our inventory for us.  And they set aside band-aids each time they change them out so I can metal detect them. It's super easy, and we are a penny pinching factory, so it can't be wildly expensive.   And I've used it in other factories, where we had big campuses and 20-30 first aid kits (roof first aid kit, vehicle first aid kits, office kits, floor kits, silo kits, etc) .  It's really tedious work to manage and I need to spend my time at work writing on this forum. 

[Snookie]

I don't know why, but I could talk about this all day.  Probably because every one else controls their medical cabinets XD

 

 

 

 in order for food sabotage to work the employee has to have access, and it has to go unnoticed for long enough for the food to be released - I like Caboose's idea of a sticker seal a lot - if you check it on your way out the door every day and it's sealed no problem.  You'd have to do inventory every time the seal broke though. 

 

I'd also imagine they are in tiny containers -1 oz, maybe 4 oz at the most.   Is 4oz of burn cream going into a 500lb batch going to harm the public?  Yes, it's adulterated product, yes, it's a chemical contaminate, but is it food safety, or quality at that point? I don't want bits of flies in my product either, but I let employees use doors to enter the building, because even though flies can get in, that's not a serious risk.    We allow medical alert tags, even though they might fall in the product. 

 

Aren't our food defense program meant to protect us from someone dumping gallons of bleach or introducing something harmful?  It's not that you aren't taking Food Defense seriously, it's that you've taken it SO seriously you did a risk assessment, and you realized the probability and severity of 1 oz of eye wash entering the product was a lower risk than an employee dumping cleaning chemicals, and you locked up the cleaning chemicals

 

 

 

In America, we say -  "You can take my epi-pen form my COLD DEAD HANDS, AUDITOR."  Then we adjust our cowboy hats and and eat Xtreme food with extra cheese and bacon. I guess if you wanted to be melodramatic and manipulative, you could pull the allergenic employee into the conference room and ask the auditor to explain to her that in order to work at an organization certified by the standard, she must be willing to risk an easily preventable death, and she probably isn't going to get any sweet hazard pay out of it. 

 

Maybe not hit over the head with an extinguisher - according to this informative article, they can also be used to knock back an unwanted intruder  -  http://www.theonion....spraying,36149/

 

 

This has always been a "Me as Hero" fantasy of mine!  Don't worry, grand ma, take a Bayer!  Also, administering the Heimlich, or recognizing a car from the Amber Alert, or taking a jar of little white pills from one old man and putting them under the tongue of another old man.    I'd imagine TSA agents have the same day dreams about finding a terrorist. We have a shock box as well...but I wouldn't try to use it on someone who could talk/swallow and it never goes that far in my day dream cuz I already saved them like a hero by then .

 

Our 3rd party signed up for all liability etc from the use of its products (I wonder if this covers terrorism) so we don't have to worry about legalities of giving out OTC drugs.  And they take our inventory for us.  And they set aside band-aids each time they change them out so I can metal detect them. It's super easy, and we are a penny pinching factory, so it can't be wildly expensive.   And I've used it in other factories, where we had big campuses and 20-30 first aid kits (roof first aid kit, vehicle first aid kits, office kits, floor kits, silo kits, etc) .  It's really tedious work to manage and I need to spend my time at work writing on this forum. 

   

[Caboose]

 

 

Aren't our food defense program meant to protect us from someone dumping gallons of bleach or introducing something harmful?  It's not that you aren't taking Food Defense seriously, it's that you've taken it SO seriously you did a risk assessment, and you realized the probability and severity of 1 oz of eye wash entering the product was a lower risk than an employee dumping cleaning chemicals, and you locked up the cleaning chemicals

 

 

My understanding of the whole Food Defense initiative is to keep consumer confidence high.

 

Scenario:

 

Evil worker takes pill bottle (lets say aspirin because it has been mentioned as a medicine that could be kept in an easy access container to save someone [if this worker wasn't evil maybe]) out of medicine cabinet that isn't protected / has no monitoring device equipped.

 

Evil worker sneaks over to holding tank and dumps aspirin into it! (Which would be another food defense point of why is the bulk container easily accessible but food defense can become a can of worms so...)

 

Food is sent to consumer, lab testing isn't looking for aspirin so it is missed (do people test for unwanted/unexpected chemicals? I am actually interested in this).

 

Somewhere, someone who is allergic to aspirin consumes the contaminated food. They get sick  ! Analysis shows that they were poisoned by an act of terrorism at X food facility! 

 

*Raises Pitchfork*

 

"X Facility isn't safe! Their foods could help the terrorists win! Thus no food is safe because of terrorists!" : Lots of lost money in investigations / lost of customer trust / government fines / etc.

 

I think the actual human health risk of food defense is less than the risk of people being afraid. "If it happened with aspirin why not with cyanide" kind of mentality.

Whether or not it could actually happen doesn't matter at that point.