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Customer Dictated CCP


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#26 Charles.C

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 02:05 AM


I always assume incompetence over maleficence,  but here I am at work on a Sunday either way

 

Dear magenta_m,

 

I assume you are referring to all 3 boxes. Indeed they sometimes tick themselves.

 

i am curious as to the "prestigious". For Production Volume ? Take-overs ?

 

Based on yr later comments, I realised that I should have added one more box to my previous list -

 

(d) the Vendor (contextually excluding  [b] of course :smile: )

 

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#27 cazyncymru

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 04:56 PM

In my experience, the bigger more prestigious the company does not mean they are any better than you. In fact I'd go as far as saying that their all vying to show how wonderfully technically fantastic they are and how essential they are to their company, that they forget the basics.

 

It's your plant. don't be afraid to remind them of the basic. Look horrified if they take umbrage to their failures being pointed out to them. Remind them that Food Safety trumps EVERYTHING!!

 

 

And so what if their Level 3 accredited. Doesn't mean that they can just forget it all when they come to you!

 

Caz x



#28 Snookie

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 04:59 PM

In my experience, the bigger more prestigious the company does not mean they are any better than you. In fact I'd go as far as saying that their all vying to show how wonderfully technically fantastic they are and how essential they are to their company, that they forget the basics.

 

It's your plant. don't be afraid to remind them of the basic. Look horrified if they take umbrage to their failures being pointed out to them. Remind them that Food Safety trumps EVERYTHING!!

 

 

And so what if their Level 3 accredited. Doesn't mean that they can just forget it all when they come to you!

 

Caz x

 

 

I would agree.  I have seen level 3 certifications that were atrocious and were no where near meeting the standard.  Stick to your guns. 


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#29 fgjuadi

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 06:09 PM

 

 

i am curious as to the "prestigious". For Production Volume ? Take-overs ?

 

Nah, in chocolate we're extra snobby - large production / takeover is not seen as a key to quality - more along the lines of good blend of beans, good notes in the chocolate, being able to source a chocolate blend that is consistent, always use cocoa butter instead of palm oil, going to the equator and checking bean sources yourself, etc.   Kind of like wine?  I don't even know a really good small batch wine maker to compare to cuz I drink whiskey.  They're like the Johnny Walker Blue Label of chocolate.  Fancy enough for a special occasion, big enough to serve the masses.  A name that would be recognized, but not purchased regularly.   They are on lists like this-http://www.thefiftyb...st_chocolate/3/     As a smoker, I can tell between something with palm oil and something with actual cocoa butter, but I think the "notes of flavor" stuff is a marketing byproduct of fine dining bull hockey.   The best tasting chocolate is the chocolate you eat with people you love.

 

 

Can you really taste if the milk in the chocolate came from a cow eating California grass or Belgium grass?   This customer believes they can, and that it should be a QCCP.   And they also think they can taste the amount of time chocolate was left in a melting tank.   For example, they were very, very concerned that chocolate not be in melted form  for 48 hours or more because they claimed it will degrade flavor, but it takes 24-48 hours to melt the volume of chocolate they wanted to produce.  Once they realized this, 48 hours became 72 hours, and all of their QCCPs limits/ranges were immediately adjustable to our process. To me, that says either the limits they set were too narrow, or deviating from those did not cause non conformity of product, so why are they a QCCP in the first place?  Why would they assume the QCCPs in their HACCP system, on separate machinery, would be the same as my set up? 

 

In my experience, the bigger more prestigious the company does not mean they are any better than you. In fact I'd go as far as saying that their all vying to show how wonderfully technically fantastic they are and how essential they are to their company, that they forget the basics.

 

It's your plant. don't be afraid to remind them of the basic. Look horrified if they take umbrage to their failures being pointed out to them. Remind them that Food Safety trumps EVERYTHING!!

 

And so what if their Level 3 accredited. Doesn't mean that they can just forget it all when they come to you!

 

Caz x

Seriously!  It's harder to NOT give them a death stare. 

Mario-Kart-8-Luigi-Death-Stare-Meme.jpg

I can only give a look of no mercy so many times before Sales tells me to cool it or talk to HR though.   I don't wanna get fired for being rude to these jerks. :angry:


Edited by magenta_majors, 29 December 2014 - 06:12 PM.

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#30 Charles.C

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 06:41 PM

Dear magenta_m,

 

Thks for the Chocolate lesson. Good stuff.

 

Perhaps it is time ISO invented PQRPs ? > 20 of them. :smile:

 

Rgds / Charles.C

 

PS: together with GFQI


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#31 fgjuadi

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 02:23 PM

Update: The customer came back with their real QA guy and he was pretty awesome actually.  He totally understood why we couldn't change our CCP and was very reasonable in helping write a risk assessment which cited the absence of brass objects in our factory.    I might actually be learning from him; I thought non ferrous and brass would detect the same in the metal detector, but now I have research to do.

 

 The first people were snotty R&D guys.  But then I think about our R&D guy, and how the other day he told me he didn't have to wear safety goggles or gloves when handling a pretty dangerous ingredient.   And instead of saying "I don't care if you cook with vodka at home, if you blind or burn yourself here with this industrial strength extract of alcohol, someone will be really mad at me.", I said "Okay dude.  Wear the PPE."  and walked away.   So if I don't want to be judged on my terrible R&D I probably shouldn't judge them.  Maybe it's just R&D people who are unreasonable and crazed because they really care that the product is exactly how they want it.  And they're paying us.  Their chocolate is still less good than ours though. 

 

OMG their QA is coming back today and he's *handsome* (and married) too.  I put on concealer but I didn't go full face. 


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#32 calaggal

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 05:41 PM

 

 I always told them to be philosophical about it....& remember the golden rule...He who has the gold makes the rules!

 

Mike

I can't agree more! I'm new to the industry only working in it for a lil more then a year now, and those words are so true!!!






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