11 replies to this topic

[Loren]

Hi Again!

 

I hope someone can give me advice on this.

 

This is my situation. Our Plant Manager is also Head of Quality, handling Production and also main decision maker in the Pre-Press (Graphics/Platemaking). I raised this issue to our VP multiple times but until now it is not addressed yet.

 

He is part of Internal Audit Team but at this time I am already thinking of removing him because of so much conflict of interest. Do you agree with me?

 

Any advise Guys?

 

 

 

Thank you in advance!

 

 

Lorena

[mgourley]

What, specifically, is the conflict of interest?

 

Obviously, cannot audit those parts of the operation that you have control of, or are affiliated with. Does this disqualify him from all internal auditing functions?

 

Marshall

[GMO]

Independent is a difficult thing to assess.  As long as you can justify what he's doing though I think it's fine.  If he's not on the HACCP team, I would get him auditing that.  If he's not directly involved in document control he could look at that.  Strictly speaking otherwise as he's directly or indirectly responsible for the whole thing, you would lose him from the audit team and to be honest, it's brilliant he's on it!

[Miss Tammy]

I have a similar situation.  We have a very small management staff that are qualified for internal audit.  It is very difficult for anyone to not audit their own work.  Can we do each section together as a team?  Even if the team member is involved in auditing their department, wouldn't the other team members involvement prevent a conflict of interest?  Think BRC will buy it?

[Charles.C]

I have a similar situation.  We have a very small management staff that are qualified for internal audit.  It is very difficult for anyone to not audit their own work.  Can we do each section together as a team?  Even if the team member is involved in auditing their department, wouldn't the other team members involvement prevent a conflict of interest?  Think BRC will buy it?

 

Different Standard  to OP ?

 

Horses for Courses perhaps.

[Watanka]

Lorena,

 

When you say that person is in charge of quality are you referring to the day-to-day quality control activities related to product specification, sampling, testing and so on - or do you mean the person responsible for quality assurance at a management level?  My bias is to keep quality control within operations and quality assurance as a separate entity.  In this way QA can make sure internal audits are independent of the pressures and goals of operations.  As the QA manager I report directly to the president of our company.  Audit results are shared with department managers, but reviewed by senior management, particularly in regard HACCP.  That cannot happen is the production manager has a vested interest in keeping non-conformances from surfacing.  Don't know your situation, but checks and balances are always a good thing.

[QAGB]

Lorena,

 

When you say that person is in charge of quality are you referring to the day-to-day quality control activities related to product specification, sampling, testing and so on - or do you mean the person responsible for quality assurance at a management level?  My bias is to keep quality control within operations and quality assurance as a separate entity.  In this way QA can make sure internal audits are independent of the pressures and goals of operations.  As the QA manager I report directly to the president of our company.  Audit results are shared with department managers, but reviewed by senior management, particularly in regard HACCP.  That cannot happen is the production manager has a vested interest in keeping non-conformances from surfacing.  Don't know your situation, but checks and balances are always a good thing.

 

Hi Lorena,

 

What an interesting situation. I agree with Watanka in that quality and operations should be separate for exactly the reasons listed. While I know everyone isn't out to hide things, I can see where that could potentially be a problem if this person is trying to meet production quotas. Good luck addressing the issue with your senior management.

 

As far as internal auditing, there must be something he can audit. As long as he is not directly responsible for whatever the audits pertain to, he should be able to complete them. Perhaps he can do audits for maintenance, utilities, chemical handling/storage, product development, etc. You might even be able to have him audit the HACCP plan, pending he isn't the one creating and maintaining it.

 

 

QAGB

[QAGB]

I have a similar situation.  We have a very small management staff that are qualified for internal audit.  It is very difficult for anyone to not audit their own work.  Can we do each section together as a team?  Even if the team member is involved in auditing their department, wouldn't the other team members involvement prevent a conflict of interest?  Think BRC will buy it?

 

 

If you can have the lead auditor be someone outside of the department, and use the team members to help answer questions, I don't see why it couldn't work. You could also have a person within the department being audited be lead auditor, as long as they are not responsible for whatever the audit pertains to. For example, food safety training generally falls under QA. If you have someone in QA that doesn't lead training exercises and is not responsible for the training program, they could technically audit the program. You just have to be sure to explain to your auditor how each lead auditor qualifies as independent if they ask.

 

QAGB

[Charles.C]

Hi All,

 

I suspect this is a very small unit hence the multiple hats ? (or Top Management are paring to the bone).

 

One obvious option as per QAGB is to pay for an external internal auditor. Presumably not popular financially.?

 

The standard remains unknown. I seem to recall from older threads that extenuating circumstances may exist for some scenarios. Business pragmatism.

 

Author ! Author ! 

[Watanka]

I should add that any facility inspection/audit program should include various people from different departments.  In this way you get a fresh perspective on what may become the same old thing.  In this way you can allow for many diffent participants in the audit process which auditors love to see in the documentation.

 

Good luck!

[kamau]

hi,

 

An auditor should be independent and of course an audit should be objective.I suggest you train more internal auditors for flexibility.

In any case,it is not a must that an internal auditor shall be a management guy.

 

All the Best

 

D.KAMAU

[ViandGroup]

If you are audited to BRC standards, an internal auditor must be independent of his area of responsibility or day-to-day activities.  It sounds as if this person wears lots of hats.  He can audit if he does not audit any area he has responsibility for.  That being said, it sounds as if he should not be part of the audit team.  I agree with the others that he does not need to be responsible for QA.  It's not good to have the "fox guarding the hen house".