11 replies to this topic

[RTP]

Hello,

 

Our program mentions that all the cleaned equipment should be rewashed and sanitized if not used with in 3 days (72 hours) after cleaning.

 

We make cheesecakes and sometimes depending on the size and variety of the cheesecake some equipment do not get used until an order has been placed to use that equipment.

 

We do wrap the equipment in food grade plastic and then tag it with the date it was cleaned and leave it in the clean equipment room.

 

I would like to know if that is the best way or are there other ways to approach it?

 

I will look forward to your views.

 

Thank you,

RTP

[DLH]

Hello RTP,

 

I work in a multi commodity facility that processes meat, dairy and sauce products and we have the same standard of rewashing after 3 days if equipment is not used.  We do not perform a full scrub down wash on the equipment like we would if it had been used, it is  much quicker foam, rinse and sanitize.  

 

This does not give you other options but at least it is a common practice. 

 

DLH

[Slab]

Hello,

 

Our program mentions that all the cleaned equipment should be rewashed and sanitized if not used with in 3 days (72 hours) after cleaning.

 

We make cheesecakes and sometimes depending on the size and variety of the cheesecake some equipment do not get used until an order has been placed to use that equipment.

 

We do wrap the equipment in food grade plastic and then tag it with the date it was cleaned and leave it in the clean equipment room.

 

I would like to know if that is the best way or are there other ways to approach it?

 

I will look forward to your views.

 

Thank you,

RTP

 

Hi, RTP;

 

Bottom line is has the release criteria been validated and procedures documented?

 

The time between cleaning is really dependent on how the equipment is being held (temp, RH), the pathogens/microorganisms of concern, and the manner of verification/validation of the cleaning. A single cfu of organism surviving the cleaning (say yeast, mold, eb, or APC) can proliferate to levels that will devastate your shelf life under the best conditions, or a sample error in pathogen screening could  result in a recall. What is the product safety parameters (pH, acidity, phase salt, Aw. etc)? Is there a post process treatment for eliminating microorganisms? 

[majoy]

We do not have production on Saturday and Sunday.

 

When sanitation cleans on Friday night, the equipment, machines, food contact surfaces are cleaned as per usual procedure rinse, washed, sanitized. Sunday night, Sanitation team has to come in to re-sanitize everything and pre-operation inspection on monday morning before production will confirm cleanliness (visual and random use of ATP) of all equipment.

[Charles.C]

Hi RTP,

 

Further to post 3, why 3 days ?, ie why not 4 or 2 ?

 

Is there any support/justification this procedure within baking industry ? (not my area)

 

What is the "equipment" you are referring to / its function in the process (if not obvious) ?

 

How clean is it after originally sanitised ? after 3 days ? (eg ATP/micro ?)

[RTP]

Thank you all for the information, it is helpful.

 

Charles, I do not know why it is 3 days and not 2 or 4 days. I guess it is a good question to ask my manager or director.

 

The equipment is mostly different kinds of pumps / depositor, cake pans etc.

 

If I get a satisfactory answer then I shall respond back here.

 

Thank you again, much appreciated. I love this forum!

[Madam A. D-tor]

Dear all,

 

indeed an interesting topic.

I have never heard of these 3 day rules here, however, I must admit that I have never ever asked for machinery that is not in use during my audits (  and I thought I was a good auditor  )

In the area I am working (meat, fish, vegetables and ready to (h)eat meals, snacks) I assume the answer will be that the equipment is washed and rinsed before use, but I really have never asked it. Thinking of it now, it can be really important, especially in ready to (h)eat meals. I will surely include this question and the involved validation into my next audits.

 

Thank you.

[Charles.C]

Dear all,

 

indeed an interesting topic.

I have never heard of these 3 day rules here, however, I must admit that I have never ever asked for machinery that is not in use during my audits (  and I thought I was a good auditor  )

In the area I am working (meat, fish, vegetables and ready to (h)eat meals, snacks) I assume the answer will be that the equipment is washed and rinsed before use, but I really have never asked it. Thinking of it now, it can be really important, especially in ready to (h)eat meals. I will surely include this question and the involved validation into my next audits.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi Madam A.D-tor,

 

Live and Learn !

 

Well, audit-wise, as a hazard, it comes at least under GMP, eg potential sources of "environmental" cross-contamination. Such aspects used to be directly included in a hazard analysis, eg via Sanitation CCPs. Now primarily transferred to PRPs.

 

But i guess from a process haccp POV the audit is limited iby its own defined scope, eg it excludes equipment not in use, otherwise you will face an infinite array.

 

@CLN - was there any info. on quantitative aspects, eg my ATP query in post 5 ? I can envisage a ginormous army of ATP swabbers

[FurFarmandFork]

We used to have the 3 day rule at a previous facility.

 

Ultimately, it was based on scheduling and the liklihood the equipment had remained "undisturbed". Typically the production schedule was set in place for 3 days so we knew what was happening in the facility for use/maintenance/etc. However, after a piece of slean sanitized equipment had been sitting around for 3 days idle, the liklihood that it became contaminated because it had to be moved, maintained, etc was much higher and we had a reinspect and sanitize policy if it remained visibly clean to prevent any unknown factors from causing an issue.

 

I think 3 days is a good set time because like mentioned above, it allowed for equipment to be cleaned on a friday and be ready for use on monday, otherwise a 48 hour rule may have been more prudent.

[Charles.C]

We used to have the 3 day rule at a previous facility.

 

Ultimately, it was based on scheduling and the liklihood the equipment had remained "undisturbed". Typically the production schedule was set in place for 3 days so we knew what was happening in the facility for use/maintenance/etc. However, after a piece of slean sanitized equipment had been sitting around for 3 days idle, the liklihood that it became contaminated because it had to be moved, maintained, etc was much higher and we had a reinspect and sanitize policy if it remained visibly clean to prevent any unknown factors from causing an issue.

 

I think 3 days is a good set time because like mentioned above, it allowed for equipment to be cleaned on a friday and be ready for use on monday, otherwise a 48 hour rule may have been more prudent.

 

Hi 3F,

 

Thks for the Interesting explanation. But it's perhaps a rather empirical " Validation" ? Some relevant test data would be useful IMO.. Perhaps visual or better ATP etc ?

Edited by Charles.C, 24 July 2017 - 04:06 AM.
edited

[Esther]

Dear RPT

 

I have never heard of that 3 days rule for recleanng neither.

 

If you are not sure abour that rule and if that rule is having a big effect in your production schedule what I would do is to check that rle by myself. You an design a sampling plan involving surface analisys on that equipment.

 

In my expereince the elvel of cleamlines remains as long as the equipment is stores in clean areas.

 

Depending of the results from your study you might have to reclean or maybe you only need an extra mild disinfection with a desinfectant that not need to be rinsed or maybe you do not need to reclean.

 

Another thing you must hae in mind is the kind of cheese you are doing in order to asess the risk.

 

I have seen many times rules and requeriments established in a factory for many years beside the reason why those rules were implemented is not there any longer.

Regards

Esther

[GrumpyJimmy]

Hello,

 

Our program mentions that all the cleaned equipment should be rewashed and sanitized if not used with in 3 days (72 hours) after cleaning.

 

We make cheesecakes and sometimes depending on the size and variety of the cheesecake some equipment do not get used until an order has been placed to use that equipment.

 

We do wrap the equipment in food grade plastic and then tag it with the date it was cleaned and leave it in the clean equipment room.

 

I would like to know if that is the best way or are there other ways to approach it?

 

I will look forward to your views.

 

Thank you,

RTP

Hi RTP - I spend 13 years of my career in one of the leading cheesecake manufacturers in the Uk and i have never heard of the rule and if anything in higher risk areas if something hadnt been used for 48hrs we would clean and sanitise again as it was likely with manufacturing going on around you, it would become dirty again. We would purely clean and sanitise all of our equipment and depending on the risk of a particular product would ATP the equipment before use. But the ATP was more on products that contained cream as a finish where it would not have some kind of bug cleaning process after it.

I think someone may of mentioned above that it may purely be something that is done due to how your buisness operates and is a necessity due to cleaning schedules and the hours the buisness is open for?

A good old risk assessmet and an ATP unit and you shouldnt go wrong!

 

DW