23 replies to this topic

[Simon]

In September 2000, Macmillan Davies Hodes carried out a membership survey for the Institute of Quality Assurance (IQA) to monitor perceptions of professional value in the quality, and health and safety fields. Respondents were invited to answer questions on salary, career history and perceived role or status in their respective professions.

Read Survey Results
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At the time the survey results painted quite a bleak and uninspiring picture for UK Quality Professionals. In 2004 almost 3 1/2 years on I thought that it might be interesting to canvass opinion. Have things changed? Do you feel more valued? Are you getting paid any more?

How does it feel being a Quality Professional in 2004?

Regards,
Simon

[Simon]

I take the lack of answers to mean:

either

a. I'm very happy with my lot

or

B. I'm too busy 'chasing my tail' to comment

I think a simple survey might work here.

Regards,
Simon

[Slab]

Of course I'm making more.  However the increase has hardly kept up with responsibilities and cost of living.  This isn't the same food safety world as it was in 2000. 

 

I would like to piss and moan about pay != responsibilities, but I won't because I feel the challenge is keeping me motivated.  Just don't let my boss know that... 

[cazyncymru]

I agree with Slab, yes I get paid more, but I don't just deal with Food Safety; under my umbrella comes Environment & Health & Safety!

 

Food Safety has changed so much in the last 14 years. I think its changed a lot in the last 5 years and if i'm honest, unfortunately (controversial statement coming), not all Quality Professionals have evolved along the way. Some times I see questions on here, and whilst we all have to start somewhere, I despair. I hold my head in my hands, wondering are they really serious or are they trolls! It does make me somewhat reluctant to respond to some post(ers). It would seem that some people are either unable to think for themselves or unwilling to! To be a quality professional you have to have at least a basic knowledge and I know it is difficult, but please if you haven't had a formal education in food safety, at least read a few books and try to learn something!

 

I think that we have now become more focussed in assessing risks with risk assessments becoming the backbone of a food safety system. As things have evolved, we are being asked to carry out more and more risk assessments; even if it doesn't truly affect our industry (I think Acrylamide!). Thing is, who's teaching people to do these risk assessments? And who taught them? their all subjective! as long as you can justify how you reached that conclusion, who's to say your right or wrong! In the latest version of the BRC, we are asked to carry out a vulnerability risk assessment. Now I work predominantly in Dairy, and I have interpreted this in risk assessing from the farm to the fork, so my study incorporates animal health as well as abuse by the customer. I'm lucky that in a previous life, I was involved in doing Farm Assurance, so I understand about what can potentially happen on the farm; but I bet I'm in the minority. We're asking quality professionals to assess something they may not have any idea about, and this is where mistakes can be made.

 

I also think we've become inundated with consultants. I probably get a request daily from either a consultant or a recruiter on LinkedIn!! If I need help I will ask, and if I want a new job, I'm sure I can find one myself! ( I've never used an agency to find a job)

 

So, those are my thoughts,  I'm sure many will disagree.

 

Caz

[fgjuadi]

I was still in high school in 2000.

[Setanta]

I was still in high school in 2000.

No one needed to know that.  :p

 

To the larger comment...

Since moving into this position, getting our facility through SQF and maintaining all of our programs, my pay has only changed as to the cost of living increases. And truthfully, it doesn't match the true COL.  So I wonder if I were to fail an audit, blow some aspect of the SQF paln, what would that do to my salary?

[Mr. Incognito]

I have only been in food quality for about 5 years so I can't comment that far back.

[Snookie]

Food Safety has changed so much in the last 14 years. I think its changed a lot in the last 5 years and if i'm honest, unfortunately (controversial statement coming), not all Quality Professionals have evolved along the way. Some times I see questions on here, and whilst we all have to start somewhere, I despair. I hold my head in my hands, wondering are they really serious or are they trolls! It does make me somewhat reluctant to respond to some post(ers). It would seem that some people are either unable to think for themselves or unwilling to! To be a quality professional you have to have at least a basic knowledge and I know it is difficult, but please if you haven't had a formal education in food safety, at least read a few books and try to learn something!

 

So, those are my thoughts,  I'm sure many will disagree.

 

Caz

 

I not only agree, don't think you went far enough.  So many are clueless about what is involved in food safety and quality.  They think anyone can do it....until something goes wrong and then it is always the fault of quality department.    It is still amazing to me how many people think that the quality of the product or the company is dependent on the quality department.  All too often I feel like the little dutch boy trying to plug all of the holes, without enough fingers and with lots of other people making new holes.  

 

I definitely don't make enough money.......

Edited by Snookie, 09 June 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[Simon]

This thread is very old indeed and got bumped by a poll vote. My opinion is yes its a diverse role, but that's half the fun, the freedom that allows is worth something and I advise get into cost savings and CI, add value, make money whilst keeping things tight and safe. QM's and the Quality dept. are an overhead and often seen just as that. Business leaders are constantly challenged to cut cost.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk

[Slab]

Sorry, Simon.  The post has been seriously necromanced. I misread the date as 2014 instead of 2004.  

 

<snip>

 

So, those are my thoughts,  I'm sure many will disagree.

 

Caz

 

Probably many will not disagree (or at least those with some modicum of sanity that serve in this profession).  Very well said. 

 

I was still in high school in 2000.

 

I guess that means you're doing better? 

 

I not only agree, don't think you went far enough.  So many are clueless about what is involved in food safety and quality.  They think anyone can do it....until something goes wrong and then it is always the fault of quality department.    It is still amazing to me how many people think that the quality of the product or the company is dependent on the quality department.  All too often I feel like the little dutch boy trying to plug all of the holes, without enough fingers and with lots of other people making new holes.  

 

I definitely don't make enough money.......

 

I absolutely loath this attitude against QA and businesses that ignore it. It's been at least 35 years since formal TQM theory, and I can't imagine why I  receive at least 3-4 emails from the FDA on recalls daily. 

 

[Simon]

No worries Slab, it's a relevant discussion today as it was then.
The values may be changed a little, but I think the challenges remain.
 

I absolutely loath this attitude against QA and businesses that ignore it. It's been at least 35 years since formal TQM theory, and I can't imagine why I  receive at least 3-4 emails from the FDA on recalls daily.

 

Maybe the surge of (GFSI standards) has created a high demand for food safety professionals and the demand has currently outstripped supply.  That said salaries should rise, or maybe CEO's wouldn't know a good QM from a bad one.

[fgjuadi]

No one needed to know that.  :p

I held back the kicker - freshman

 

To be crass, my salary history has been as follows -

 

Working on my thesis/janiting dorms $7.50/hr / CDC call center (ugh) - $7/hr

Working at the city water micro lab (holidays & weekends, best job evar?) - $12.hr

Desperate dairy job as QA Tech (3 months) - $17/hr

Working at the big boys as QA Manager (small factory, no underlings ) - $18/hr

Working at a small hell factory with underlings - $54k a year! No more per hour! (got fired, 2 months severance!)

Working at a small nice company now - 45k a year

 

 

When I was looking at jobs for this most recent search...there were THOUSANDS of jobs if I was willing to relocate.  There is a huge lack of talent in the midwest.  If I liked sales more I'd become a recruiter.  I still get emails about twice a week with a new job offer.  Even though I only have 5 years of Food Experience.  I got flown out to places and they were offering crazy pay - anywhere from 55-75k a year, looking at everything between a 2nd shift sanitation manager job and Lab supervisor and a ton of QA Manager poisitions....I saw wine factories, cheese factories, pistachio factories, chicken & hot dogs, dairy....just flooded with jobs.

 

If you hate your job you can leave it and totally get paid more. 

Edited by magenta_majors, 10 June 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[fgjuadi]

 

I definitely don't make enough money.......

  All too often I feel like the little dutch boy trying to plug all of the holes, without enough fingers and with lots of other people making new holes.  

This is my life

[Shyguy77]

I agree with a lot of the other post on here that have clearly spelled it out. I've been in the Quality department since 2000 and have worked my way up along the years to Quality Supervisor. During this time I've seen stricter rules and regulations for the quality professionals and minimal salary increase to compensate the added work and STRESS that comes along with it.

[Snookie]

 

When I was looking at jobs for this most recent search...there were THOUSANDS of jobs if I was willing to relocate.  There is a huge lack of talent in the midwest.

 

If you hate your job you can leave it and totally get paid more. 

 

Your right there are lots of jobs in the Midwest and east coast....the trouble is they are in the Midwest and the east coast.  

[Snookie]

 

Maybe the surge of (GFSI standards) has created a high demand for food safety professionals and the demand has currently outstripped supply.  That said salaries should rise, or maybe CEO's wouldn't know a good QM from a bad one.

 

I would agree that demand has outstripped supply, and many unqualified people are trying to fill the many openings.  But that has also meant that companies pay them less but then see that as the going rate.  Good quality professionals then struggle to get the money they are worth and for the value they bring.  All too often companies don't recognize the good from the bad until there is a problem which is the wrong time to figure that out. 

 

Am not trying to be negative.  I love what I do and I'm good at it, but get very frustrated by companies that are "penny wise and pound foolish", especially in a day when CEO's think they are worth a kings ransom but think with my years of education and experience I should live on dry bread crusts.   

Edited by Snookie, 10 June 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Snookie]

Thank you for your patience, I will stop ranting now and step off the soapbox and speak more cheerfully. 

[Simon]

That's exactly what I was getting at Snookie.

Quality is seen as a "cost" and many shortsighted or (perhaps struggling) businesses want it cheap and cheaper.

That's why I think QM's should get involved with improvements and cost savings that impact the bottom line; (and shout about it) to raise our profile.

[Mr. Incognito]

In 2000 I was an FCSN in the Navy making dirt and getting told what to do when.

 

Now I am a manager so I guess in the broadest sense I am doing exceptionally better than 2000 lol

[Setanta]

 

That's exactly what I was getting at Snookie.
Quality is seen as a "cost" and many shortsighted or (perhaps struggling) businesses want it cheap and cheaper.
That's why I think QM's should get involved with improvements and cost savings that impact the bottom line; (and shout about it) to raise our profile.

I agree, however making it that happen when there is serious resistance can be detrimental to your position and mental health. There is a balancing act to be walked and in that sense I don't get that there is a change. When I struggle to get my Business Continuity Test run by senior management (we have a Plan, we just don't think anything bad will EVER REALLY happen) buying new equipment or other capital plans seems like pipe dreams.

[cazyncymru]

I must admit, I think I buck the trend a bit.

 

As part of the senior management team on site, I'm probably amongst the best paid. My boss, who also owns the company, totally respects what I do, and to be fair, if I ask for something and can justify it, I get it.

 

He is conscious of the fact, that the entire team are sometimes in stressful situations, and he does his best to alleviate that at every opportunity. He has complete trust in all of his staff and the decisions we make. He puts up with my quirkiness, my tantrums, my head holding and my looking over the top of my glasses in disbelieve!

 

I am grateful and I appreciate that I'm in this position.

 

Caz x

[Snookie]

I must admit, I think I buck the trend a bit.

 

As part of the senior management team on site, I'm probably amongst the best paid. My boss, who also owns the company, totally respects what I do, and to be fair, if I ask for something and can justify it, I get it.

 

He is conscious of the fact, that the entire team are sometimes in stressful situations, and he does his best to alleviate that at every opportunity. He has complete trust in all of his staff and the decisions we make. He puts up with my quirkiness, my tantrums, my head holding and my looking over the top of my glasses in disbelieve!

 

I am grateful and I appreciate that I'm in this position.

 

Caz x

 

While I think your company is the exception and not generally the rule......it is nice to know that such companies and people do exist. 

 

 

That's exactly what I was getting at Snookie.

Quality is seen as a "cost" and many shortsighted or (perhaps struggling) businesses want it cheap and cheaper.

That's why I think QM's should get involved with improvements and cost savings that impact the bottom line; (and shout about it) to raise our profile.

 

You're right we are often seen as cost and our value is under-appreciated.  That was one of the great values of Six Sigma.  A well designed project demonstrated where a lot of soft costs are, that could actually be quite large.  We don't help ourselves by staying quiet.  Catching a bad product at receiving can save a lot of time, money when it doesn't make to the production line or worse yet to the customer.  But while that should be normal business, it is also a teaching moment to say this is why this is important.  

 

 

 

I agree, however making it that happen when there is serious resistance can be detrimental to your position and mental health. There is a balancing act to be walked and in that sense I don't get that there is a change. When I struggle to get my Business Continuity Test run by senior management (we have a Plan, we just don't think anything bad will EVER REALLY happen) buying new equipment or other capital plans seems like pipe dreams.

 

My mental health is already in question after all I am a quality professional.   The balancing act can be hard.  Sometimes it can be hard to keep everyone vigilant because the reason nothing really bad happens is that we are vigilant and pro-active.  Ahh new equipment and capital plans.......someday..........

[CBJuice]

Thank you for making me feel very fortunate. I am a relative newbie to QA in respect to you all. I didn't even finish school until 2003. However, my company has made a dedicated effort towards QA and their intentions are good. QA was being managed by the CEO until the poached me to be their first QA person. So far I have had the full support of the CEO and Office Managers with some resistance of the factory staff (to be expected given this is the first time they've had a dedicated QA person on staff).

I know wages are very good in Australia compared to elsewhere and I get $23/hr and seem to get a reasonable pay rise each year. So far I feel my position and changes are valued, I guess time will tell how things evovle for this little company.

[Snookie]

Thank you for making me feel very fortunate. I am a relative newbie to QA in respect to you all. I didn't even finish school until 2003. However, my company has made a dedicated effort towards QA and their intentions are good. QA was being managed by the CEO until the poached me to be their first QA person. So far I have had the full support of the CEO and Office Managers with some resistance of the factory staff (to be expected given this is the first time they've had a dedicated QA person on staff).

I know wages are very good in Australia compared to elsewhere and I get $23/hr and seem to get a reasonable pay rise each year. So far I feel my position and changes are valued, I guess time will tell how things evovle for this little company.

 

Congratulations on your new position.  Quality can be a lot of fun with a lot of satisfaction.  The good news is that your at a company that values Quality and you.  If you need any help that is what we are here for is to help each other out.