32 replies to this topic

[Sweet'n'low]

I didn't realize you were referring to the store chain 7-11. I am aware if them. Didn't know they were Japanese owned though. 

You can thank 7-11 for most of the supply chain advances made. in japan they had one of the most efficient warehouse to store to buyer chain because of the POS system they used. Very interesting on how it worked. 

[Brendan Triplett]

Hey guys,

 

I know this might not help change anyone's minds at all when it comes to Alcohol Based Hand Sanitizers (ABHS) but I thought it might be worth bringing it up just to stir the pot.  Science.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21976190

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20134005

 

Lets the comments roll!

[PollyKBD]

I was told during my SQF training that proper hand washing water temperature varied from state to state and that if you state a temperature the auditor can test it, so it best be being practiced. In other words, you will not get dinged for not stating a temperature but if you do and the water is not to temp  when someone is washing their hands you can get dinged. I imagine you may also need to be auditing the temperature regularly if you are stating a given temperature. Seems safer not to state a temperature if it isn't required.  

Has anyone else heard this? 

[kfromNE]

With the temperature varying from state to state it is possible. The FDA issues the food code, it is then up to each individual state to adapt the food code however they may want to. When I used to teach the Servsafe class (which is based upon the most current code), the variance between state wasn't usually the temperature. The difference was usually concerning when individuals had to wear gloves, allowing for reusable take home containers (meals on wheels, universities), food handler license requirements, etc. When I taught the class, I always taught 100 F but to tell employees as hot as they can stand it which should get them above 100F. 

 

https://www.fda.gov/...e/UCM577858.pdf - for anyone curious, this is what the different states codes are based upon.

 

As for stating the temperature, I would agree, better not to specifically name a temperature or say above 100F.

[tkloch@ford]

I cant believe New York state health department has not adopted any version of the food code. i agree it is best not to state a temperature. If not required... best to not put your self in a corner. 

[cthom291]

Here is some science that addresses this question: http://www.foodprote...nts/I_036_a.pdf  after reading the science I would say that the temperature that is most comfortable in washing your hands.

[FurFarmandFork]

I have to disagree Brendan..........maybe in theory alcohol is better, but can create all sorts of small cracks in hands where bacteria can hide which creates are larger problem, as well as creating contact dermatitis on hands which leads to employees taking time off work.......

 

You simply cannot replace good handwashing  (and your second link is about health care providers where the concern is different pathogens in a very pathogenic environment)

 

Alcohol based sanitizers are only to be used WITH proper handwashing. Period.

 

 

...It's worth noting that CDC disagrees in healthcare settings. And they concluded that alcohol based sanitizers actually caused less skin irritaton than handwashing.

 

The argument for food is that rather than just a sanitizing step, we're actually normally needing to remove soils, or norovirus, which is resistant to hand sanitizers.

 

The funny thing there is, if the assumption is that you need to remove soils in a food environment, temperature is actually important because it does improve the ability to remove gross materials and hydrophobic materials (e.g. grease) from hands, even if it makes no difference when you've simply inoculated hands with microorganisms. When they're embedded in hamburger fat or food grade grease, different situation.

[Brendan Triplett]

Hey all, great points all around. I would just say that we use hand sanitizers in conjunction with good handwashing and personnel hygiene practices (post #9). I cant say that one is always better than the other but I do find that having several layers of controls in place do make it safer. I can get rid of debris on the hands with hand washing and microorganisms with the sanitizer. I cant say for sure that one is better than the other but I think that if you have a good product with good processes in place that an approach that reviews both angles can be good for a clean environment. Hopes this helps clarify if anyone thinks that sanitizer is the only option and the only thing someone could get away with using in a food environment... it definitely is not, at least it is not how we do business.