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How far should mouse traps be from each other?


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The Food Scientist

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:05 PM

Hi all,

 

The SQF code does not indicate a few things when it comes to pest prevention and I was wondering where I can find that guidance when it comes to the distance between mouse traps. How far should they be from each other? Any help or reference would be appreciated :)


Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.


Scampi

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:10 PM

Your provider should be able to answer all of that for you (please please please use a provider)

 

If your doing in house, there's a ton of good info online re: your query

 

FYI if your doing this in house, and maintaining exterior pest traps, you need a staff member(s) trained AND certified to pest control management (where i'm at it's a provincial license that's required) 


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The Food Scientist

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:11 PM

Our provider already did but I am asking for any reference or anywhere it says that by SQF.


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SQFconsultant

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:13 PM

SQF is not going to provide technical info such as distance for mouse traps - this is something that would be with your PCO.


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Posted 01 May 2019 - 04:06 AM

Maybe depends on the size of the mouse also. Crowd control ?


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Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:50 PM

For some reason I dimly recall its every 50 to 100 feet.



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Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:01 PM

AIB Standard used to be 20 feet, and on each side of any exterior door.

 

Marshall



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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:09 AM

Hi, Food Scientist.

 

Initially, the distance set by several references are 3-10meters.  With deeper understanding of IPM, the recommendation (including AIB) is to concentrate most of the devices where there is suspected activity. This could be less than 3meters especially if you have infestation. 

 

In addition, should the pest control provider conducted a site risk assessment, the output of the assessment could provide you the answer.

 

BR



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Posted 02 May 2019 - 01:16 PM

I'm used to a MAX span between traps (regardless of activity) of 10 feet 

 

For some reason I dimly recall its every 50 to 100 feet.

100 feet seems like a humongous span!


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The Food Scientist

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 01:39 PM

I spoke with our Pest Control Contractor and he indicated it's somewhere between 25 and 45 meters. So I think I'll go with 35 meters to stay on the safe side. Thank you everyone!


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Posted 03 May 2019 - 07:39 PM

-My SQF auditor was MOST concerned that the traps were at either side of any door  or possible entry point for pests. And all they really want to see is a floor plan proving frequent preventative controls. I don't know what your facility is like, but I can tell you my auditor did not care, as long as there weren't any signs of pest activity anywhere.

 

-If you take a pest control course online, they offer guidelines on equipment, like how often it should be placed. Go to the manufacturer of your trap for their advice.

 

-I also think frequency is variable based on the facility type and location. What are the risks in your area? SQF NEVER gives clear black and white answers.

 

My best advice is to have them properly set up on either side of any entrance. That's the biggie.

 

-And may I just say, you can ABSOLUTELY create and operate your own program. If you get certified or take excellent training, depending on your facility needs one could argue that it's BETTER to have your own program. You can monitor much more frequently than an outside contractor can. And your team can respond to emergencies better. I had a contractor take THREE days to respond to my request to visit.

 

No auditor or consultant I've spoken to has said it had to be an outside contractor. Some facilities are very easy to control pests, some are not. So it definitely depends on that too. If you have limited risk, a well secured location, and want to use only all natural , nontoxic baits, then there's no reason not to train someone on the team to manage a pest program.



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Posted 03 May 2019 - 07:40 PM

Your provider should be able to answer all of that for you (please please please use a provider)

 

If your doing in house, there's a ton of good info online re: your query

 

FYI if your doing this in house, and maintaining exterior pest traps, you need a staff member(s) trained AND certified to pest control management (where i'm at it's a provincial license that's required) 

 

I'm not sure I agree with the strong recommendation to have an outside provider. Would be interested in a debate on this issue.



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Posted 03 May 2019 - 07:49 PM

I'm not sure I agree with the strong recommendation to have an outside provider. Would be interested in a debate on this issue.

 

If the pest control provider is licensed/certificated, they should provide an annual audit and written recommendations as part of their service. The BRC actually requires this audit, see BRC8 Clause 4.14.10.



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Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:01 PM

I'm not sure I agree with the strong recommendation to have an outside provider. Would be interested in a debate on this issue.

 

I'm an advocate for using a third-party pest control service for the majority of operations.  I find that between training, licensing, chemical application, etc. it is simply too much of a financial and liability burden to a facility to have a staff member(s) dedicated to this function compared to the investment made in a contractor. 

 

BUT... it never hurts to also have a staff member with basic training in case of emergency, as you mentioned above. 


Edited by MsMars, 06 May 2019 - 07:02 PM.


FlotoYo

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:40 PM

I'm an advocate for using a third-party pest control service for the majority of operations.  I find that between training, licensing, chemical application, etc. it is simply too much of a financial and liability burden to a facility to have a staff member(s) dedicated to this function compared to the investment made in a contractor. 

 

BUT... it never hurts to also have a staff member with basic training in case of emergency, as you mentioned above. 

 

I completely agree. I have organized SQF for a facility before where I became the licensed pest control operator, and the auditor was surprised and happy with my program. Mostly because I could reasonably accomplish weekly and bi-weekly inspections, whereas a contractor comes out every other week or only once a month. That said, that particular facility was all natural, no toxic bait. Contractors charge an extraordinary money, and it is possible to get training certifications for pests common to your facility, but not for toxic applications. I also found, with that business, that their response to our calls were slow, two to three days late when we'd have a rodent caught in a trap that needed safe removal. It was frustrating. Maybe because that was a small business, they did not care to be prompt.

 

Bigger facilities will require better attention, so I think both are accurate. I just disagree with someone saying "HANDS DOWN, Go with a contractor." Every business is so different. 



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Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:44 PM

In Canada, you also need a pesticide license to use bait in exterior traps................it's a 3 day course that needs repeated every couple of years

 

Traps ALWAYS get checked for location, activity during pre op and sanitation, and recorded, but it's no substitute to properly trained 3rd party companies (good ones of course).  I am NOT subscribing using ONLY a 3rd party

 

 

There's a lot more to a good plan than just interior mouse traps


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Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:21 PM

In Canada, you also need a pesticide license to use bait in exterior traps................it's a 3 day course that needs repeated every couple of years

 

Traps ALWAYS get checked for location, activity during pre op and sanitation, and recorded, but it's no substitute to properly trained 3rd party companies (good ones of course).  I am NOT subscribing using ONLY a 3rd party

 

 

There's a lot more to a good plan than just interior mouse traps

 

Hi Scampi,

 

I would have thought that proactivity demands external traps as well as interior. Canada seems rather rodent-friendly.

 

@ Flotoyo -  I'm impressed that you could find time to do bi-weekly full-scale pest inspections. it sort of sounds like you had a major rodent situation ?

 

Did you do trend analyses also ? This is another area where IMEX contractors can be useful.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 07 May 2019 - 02:30 PM

LOl Charles, depends on the time of year

 

There are exterior traps as well, they get checked weekly by PCO and monthly during internal audit


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The Food Scientist

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 12:59 PM

Okay so I have sort of an update and I need some insight.

 

This question was sent by one of the "managers" from my facility: 

 

"Quick question on tin cats, we have 2 dock doors and a personal door with 27 feet left edge to right edge. Currently the are 4 tin cats, one on each side of the doors, would it be acceptable to just have one on each side of the three door group, there is only about 14 inches between the dock door?"

 

His "auditor" replied saying:

 

"You can do whatever you want on your pest control program because there’s no requirement by FDA established stating what you have to do in your facility. You are just required to control contamination in your products".

 

What is everyone's thoughts on this? 


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Posted 09 May 2019 - 01:16 PM

Okay so I have sort of an update and I need some insight.

 

This question was sent by one of the "managers" from my facility: 

 

"Quick question on tin cats, we have 2 dock doors and a personal door with 27 feet left edge to right edge. Currently the are 4 tin cats, one on each side of the doors, would it be acceptable to just have one on each side of the three door group, there is only about 14 inches between the dock door?"

 

His "auditor" replied saying:

 

"You can do whatever you want on your pest control program because there’s no requirement by FDA established stating what you have to do in your facility. You are just required to control contamination in your products".

 

What is everyone's thoughts on this? 

 

And the auditor's not wrong. Now I'm not sure about the requirements of other certification schemes, but sounds to me if you have your own pest control program and you can show that you are effectively controlling pests, then you can do this however you'd like.

 

I will say there are guidelines on trap spacing for a reason. Although this particular situation seems like a technicality, mismanagement of your program can cause pest issues that get out of hand quickly, and if that happens then you may end up calling an expert anyway. It comes down to the amount of risk that pests pose within your product/process relative to the risk that you take when implementing your own program.



The Food Scientist

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 01:22 PM

And the auditor's not wrong. Now I'm not sure about the requirements of other certification schemes, but sounds to me if you have your own pest control program and you can show that you are effectively controlling pests, then you can do this however you'd like.

 

I will say there are guidelines on trap spacing for a reason. Although this particular situation seems like a technicality, mismanagement of your program can cause pest issues that get out of hand quickly, and if that happens then you may end up calling an expert anyway. It comes down to the amount of risk that pests pose within your product/process relative to the risk that you take when implementing your own program.

 

We use an outside contractor. This is all because management wants to get rid of the baits much as possible. And I want to control pests as much as possible, because we are indeed having a pest problem, which is why I started the whole debate.  


Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.


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Posted 09 May 2019 - 01:28 PM

We use an outside contractor. This is all because management wants to get rid of the baits much as possible. And I want to control pests as much as possible, because we are indeed having a pest problem, which is why I started the whole debate.  

 

Then, to me, the answer seems obvious: follow the recommendations of your pest control provider. Did your management say why they wanted to get rid of baits? 



The Food Scientist

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Posted 09 May 2019 - 01:39 PM

Then, to me, the answer seems obvious: follow the recommendations of your pest control provider. Did your management say why they wanted to get rid of baits? 

 

They want to get rid of a lot of them, decrease the number. But I want to follow the recommendations of my provider.


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Posted 09 May 2019 - 01:59 PM

They want to get rid of a lot of them, decrease the number. But I want to follow the recommendations of my provider.

 

Is it an aesthetics thing? A cost issue? Either of those pale in comparison to what it's going to look like/cost if you have a pest control issue that initiates a complaint or a recall. 



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Posted 09 May 2019 - 02:25 PM

The Food Scientist, you need to push HARD.............show you're management about the couple in Mongolia who just DIED because of plague infested rodents

 

 

It IS a big deal when pests enter........................not just because they chew on stuff and make a mess  but because they carry horrible diseases which can be passed to your employees and customers!

 

https://www.mayoclin...es/syc-20351291

 

https://www.bbc.com/...d-asia-48182646

 

Bait stations are a necessary evil.......................cannot believe they want to pull them when you're already having problems with rodents.

 

Can i also guess management are farmers????? I say that because that's been my personal experience with this kind of ignorance 


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