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What to document for Validation and Verification?

validation verification pre requisite

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#1 yosali13

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 03:08 PM

Hi Everyone!

 

Thanks for reading my forum. I am new to the site and have gathered a lot of helpful information. Ive just been promoted to SQF Practitioner in my job, we are RTE Arepa manufacturer. I am currently reviewing our book preparing for our Audit on Monday and Im having trouble writting something for the Validation and Effectiveness and Verification Activites. I get confused between the two, and I dont know exactly what to document on which.. I have PRP table that explains how we verify and how we validate but not sure how to put into writting for the code.

 

Please help..

 

Thanks In Advance



#2 Sweet'n'low

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 03:47 PM

To ease your confusion for verification try and think, "are we doing what we say we are doing" , and for validation, "how are we doing what we say we are doing" or "how do we know we are doing what we say we are doing". They do go hand in hand, but there's a fine line between the two. 

 

So writing down your verification activities, how would you say you know they are working? That's your validation. 

 

For verification, I utilize a spreadsheet. I attached it for you. 


Edited by kkalpakidis, 25 July 2019 - 03:47 PM.


#3 SQFconsultant

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 04:20 PM

In SQFvalidation is defined as, “a system, which identifies, evaluates and controls hazards which are significant for food safety.

 

Verification. Both validation and verification are frequently used words in the context of food safety plans. Briefly to distinguish between the two (according to SQFFood Safety Fundamentals), “validations seek to prove that the intended result was achieved and that it actually worked.”

 

By the way, if you are only working on this now and your audit is on Monday... this is way too tight a schedule - Auditors expect an implementation period -- in otherwords, don't shoot yourself in the foot and consider canceling the audit date and pushing it outwards.


Warm regards,

 

 

Glenn Oster

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC

 

SQF Development & Implementation Consultants

FSVP Consultants

Yorktown, VA & Arenal, Costa Rica

www.GlennOsterConsulting.com

+1-800-793-7042 (Earth Wide)

 

We help small-to-midsize food, food contact packaging & food logistic businesses to co-develop entire SQF systems and provide consulting audits on facilities and operations to ensure SQF compliance in order to get certified as quickly as possible, so that your company can retain customers and gain new customers that expect certification from their suppliers.

 

Development of SQF Systems - Implementation of SQF - eConsultant - FSVP Development - Internal Auditor Training - this is what we do 24/7


#4 The Food Scientist

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 05:15 PM

Go here:

 

https://www.sqfi.com...-with-cover.pdf

 

Scroll down to validation & verification section (2.5 SQF System Verification). It should help you out to know what auditors look for :)


Edited by The Food Scientist, 25 July 2019 - 05:16 PM.

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#5 yosali13

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:10 PM

To ease your confusion for verification try and think, "are we doing what we say we are doing" , and for validation, "how are we doing what we say we are doing" or "how do we know we are doing what we say we are doing". They do go hand in hand, but there's a fine line between the two. 

 

So writing down your verification activities, how would you say you know they are working? That's your validation. 

 

For verification, I utilize a spreadsheet. I attached it for you. 

Thank you for your response. I didnt see the attachment :(



#6 yosali13

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:13 PM

In SQFvalidation is defined as, “a system, which identifies, evaluates and controls hazards which are significant for food safety.

 

Verification. Both validation and verification are frequently used words in the context of food safety plans. Briefly to distinguish between the two (according to SQFFood Safety Fundamentals), “validations seek to prove that the intended result was achieved and that it actually worked.”

 

By the way, if you are only working on this now and your audit is on Monday... this is way too tight a schedule - Auditors expect an implementation period -- in otherwords, don't shoot yourself in the foot and consider canceling the audit date and pushing it outwards.

Thank you for responding. To answer your question, no i did not just start working on this. I am taking over the previous SQF Practitioner who is still the Practitioner here, but I am reviewing and updating documents as I was just promoted. We got a minor in our last audit due to this so I am trying to improve it to my best. My problems is just how to word it and document. We do the activities, I just have a hard time figuring out how to document.

 

Many thanks.



#7 Sweet'n'low

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:31 PM

Thank you for your response. I didnt see the attachment :(

Might be becuase i forgot to hit the button "attach this file" 

Attached Files



#8 yosali13

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:40 PM

Might be becuase i forgot to hit the button "attach this file" 

Thank you! I love that. Super informal.

So you do the verification for every module?

I have it currently set up for verification and validation of my PRP.

 

Should I be doing it different? Or is it by preference?



#9 yosali13

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 06:51 PM

Thank you! I love that. Super informal.

So you do the verification for every module?

I have it currently set up for verification and validation of my PRP.

 

Should I be doing it different? Or is it by preference?

I attached what I am currently working with.

Any comments are welcome!

 

Thanks!

Attached Files



#10 Sweet'n'low

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 07:00 PM

Thank you! I love that. Super informal.

So you do the verification for every module?

I have it currently set up for verification and validation of my PRP.

 

Should I be doing it different? Or is it by preference?

I would think it is preference or depending on what the code number is. 

 

For example, section 2-2 Document Control and Records. Although I am the one completing the documentation in regards to quality issues, incidents, and rejected material, our HR manager has the responsibility in making sure our records are in order and policies and procedures are up to date/current. 

 

Another one where the employees in different departments are carrying out specific duties, like completing a weekly checklist and turn them into me, are considered to me as a verification of some of the module 13 is taken care of. Then i follow up for clarification or observation on my part.

 

For the most part, I am the one doing the majority of the work, but some is delegated to other parties throughout the plant. You'll notice how I have a column that states the responsible party for the completion. That should give you an idea of what I do vs others do. 



#11 Charles.C

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Posted 25 July 2019 - 11:29 PM

Hi Everyone!

 

Thanks for reading my forum. I am new to the site and have gathered a lot of helpful information. Ive just been promoted to SQF Practitioner in my job, we are RTE Arepa manufacturer. I am currently reviewing our book preparing for our Audit on Monday and Im having trouble writting something for the Validation and Effectiveness and Verification Activites. I get confused between the two, and I dont know exactly what to document on which.. I have PRP table that explains how we verify and how we validate but not sure how to put into writting for the code.

 

Please help..

 

Thanks In Advance

 

Hi yosali,

 

"Validation" and (less so) "Verification" are  much argued over concepts in haccp and other Control operations. Particularly over their Operational/Chronological  distinction.

 

Sadly, if you look through older, eg pre ver. 7.2, threads for SQF on this forum, you will see that SQF's textual/auditorial interpretation of "Validation"  requirements has generated substantial disagreements, particularly as compared to other FS Standards. Verification requirements have proved less contentious.

 

SQF noted prior to version 7.2  that internal/external difficulties  existed over auditors interpretations of Validation requirements. This confusion was attempted to be resolved via textual changes in version 7.2 et seq. Notably PRPs were no longer required to be explicitly Validated.

 

Unfortunately, old habits sometimes persist so that interpretive auditorial variations  may still occur.

 

The "best" practical approach may be to absorb/implement  example responses as donated here by experienced SQF users and hope that yr auditor agrees with them. If the subsequent audit result proves  otherwise, you will probably have to modify yr presentation as per the auditor's preferences.

 

Just to illustrate, the attachment in post 9 probably derives from this 2012 post based, I think, on the "older"  SQF  Validation requiremnts -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ams/#entry56545

 

Some critical comments on this topic  can be seen later in the same thread linked above.

 

PS - one might have expected that the current situation would by now  be substantially "updated"  but post 9 implies otherwise. So be it.


Edited by Charles.C, 25 July 2019 - 11:40 PM.
edited

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C






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