5 replies to this topic

[smartie]

I know this is an older thread...has anything new come out regarding threshholds for hand swabs of food processing workers? Specifically, is the general consensus that total aerobic plate counts should be below the limit of detection for most workers? Is there a CFU/hand that is considered universally dirty? Thanks!

Edited by Charles.C, 06 March 2020 - 08:35 PM.
Posts split from walabies 2008 coffee creamer thread

[Charles.C]

I know this is an older thread...has anything new come out regarding threshholds for hand swabs of food processing workers? See below.
Specifically, is the general consensus that total aerobic plate counts should be below the limit of detection for most workers?  I have never seen this specific opinion.

Is there a CFU/hand that is considered universally dirty? Thanks! If you mean a specific CFU value, then afaik NO. It would be improbable.

 

Hi smartie,

 

I note you only refer to APC. Other bacterial features, eg indicators,  pathogens, are also important, particularly since APC is not, per se, a safety factor..

 

Not sure if you already saw the link below which mostly focuses on equipment surfaces but has some hand swab content -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ces/#entry60958

 

The answer to yr "thresholds" query in a general sense notably relates to the worker's handling activity, eg  RTE or otherwise.

 

Some countries do have maximum counts/unit area of hands,(eg see later posts in above link). Probably a minority.

Some literature unifies limits for equipment / hands.

Some literature considers hand APC counts are essentially meaningless due probably not representative.

[smartie]

Hi smartie,

 

I note you only refer to APC. Other bacterial features, eg indicators,  pathogens, are also important, particularly since APC is not, per se, a safety factor..

 

Not sure if you already saw the link below which mostly focuses on equipment surfaces but has some hand swab content -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ces/#entry60958

 

The answer to yr "thresholds" query in a general sense notably relates to the worker's handling activity, eg  RTE or otherwise.

 

Some countries do have maximum counts/unit area of hands,(eg see later posts in above link). Probably a minority.

Some literature unifies limits for equipment / hands.

Some literature considers hand APC counts are essentially meaningless due probably not representative.

Yeah I asked about APC because I had previously seen some threshholds for coliform and other bacteria. I was just wondering what an audit with just an APC swab of workers hands might be able to tell a manager about worker hand hygiene. For example, would something like 1000 CFUs per hand swab be considered dirty? 

[Charles.C]

Yeah I asked about APC because I had previously seen some threshholds for coliform and other bacteria. I was just wondering what an audit with just an APC swab of workers hands might be able to tell a manager about worker hand hygiene. For example, would something like 1000 CFUs per hand swab be considered dirty? 

 

Hi smartie,

 

For example - Probably not if you're in a food manufacturing facility in India unless perhaps you have tiny hands.

 

Did you read through my link ?

[Foodiee]

Hi smartie,

 

For example - Probably not if you're in a food manufacturing facility in India unless perhaps you have tiny hands.

 

Did you read through my link ?

 

Hi Charles, @

 

Per Smartie's question, I recently conducted some micro tests on our operators hands, hence how I came across this post as you replied to my original post regarding establishing a baseline.  

To not get off topic, I have been trying to find a matrix that I can compare the results I received to. For example as Smartie mentioned, what amount of CFU's would be a red flag to a manager regarding hand hygiene as well as clothing.

 

Examples

 

2800 cfu's - Operators hand

 

550 cfu's - Operators Tshirt

 

To give you a little background, we are not a food processing/handling facility.

We fall under a package facility, producing closures. Only part of our closure that will come into contact with a foodstuff is the liner.

 

thank you for your feedback in advance. 

Edited by Foodiee, 06 March 2020 - 06:53 PM.

[Charles.C]

Hi Charles, @

 

Per Smartie's question, I recently conducted some micro tests on our operators hands, hence how I came across this post as you replied to my original post regarding establishing a baseline.  

To not get off topic, I have been trying to find a matrix that I can compare the results I received to. For example as Smartie mentioned, what amount of CFU's would be a red flag to a manager regarding hand hygiene as well as clothing.

 

Examples

 

2800 cfu's - Operators hand

 

550 cfu's - Operators Tshirt

 

To give you a little background, we are not a food processing/handling facility.

We fall under a package facility, producing closures. Only part of our closure that will come into contact with a foodstuff is the liner.

 

thank you for your feedback in advance. 

Hi Foodiee,

 

I assume you have studied the compiled data in my link/post in yr previous thread.  This illustrates that for comparison purposes it is necessary to reference data to the area swabbed, eg X /cm2.(or at least provide a conversion factor if an alternate unit is given).

 

So, firstly, can you provide the surface area of "hands" which was used to generate  yr swab data ?

 

Secondly, the relevance (eg baseline) of any data invariably depends on the specific routine situation/procedure, eg just after cleaning/sanitising, while working, etc.

So can you clarify this factor ?

 

Thirdly, offhand, I unfortunately can not recall (although such may exist) having seen any stated APC  limits for hands of workers in food packaging manufacturing facilities. The nearest I can recall on this Forum is a detailed study but which only evaluated hands with respect to Coliform and E.coli levels. This nice study is the 2nd attachment in this Post -

https://www.ifsqn.co...ing/#entry51214

(it is possible the very recent BRC/SQF focus on EMPs for their Packaging Standards has generated some data here)

 

So, initially, the only option I can think of is to initially borrow the criteria from the food manufacturing arena which are detailed in link to yr 1st post. Therein A "fairly" frequently quoted APC limit for hands is 100cfu/cm2 (also see some related thoughts in my Post6 in the 2nd link of the pair below). As example, if the area of hand which provided yr data was, say, 100cm2, count would be 28 cfu/cm2, ie satisfactory.

 

Returning to current hands situation, I suggest you have a look at these 2 "hands" threads which (much) expand on the thoughts above -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ds/#entry127472

https://www.ifsqn.co...ces/#entry98364

 

Please have a look at above links and revert if any further queries.