17 replies to this topic

[The Food Scientist]

Hey guys! Hope everyone is safe.

 

Wanted to ask everyone's opinion this:

 

Upon employee arrival to work, can we spray them with alcohol based sanitizer? Of course not the face. Just like their clothes? (After they have all their PPE on)??

 

If your opinion is no, please explain.

[kettlecorn]

I guess I'm confused about the purpose here: what do you mean by "spray," and why would this be more effective than making sure employees follow cGMPs (arriving with good hygiene, clean clothes and wearing, presumably smocks and captured shoes that are stored in house, washing hands, social distancing and perhaps wearing masks and so forth)? I'd be worried about personnel safety if you're just spraying their entire bodies down and people are inhaling the fumes from the alcohol sanitizer on their clothes on a regular basis. I dunno, it seems to me there are more effective ways to ensure the employees are safe and that the food produced is safe. 

[The Food Scientist]

I guess I'm confused about the purpose here: what do you mean by "spray," and why would this be more effective than making sure employees follow cGMPs (arriving with good hygiene, clean clothes and wearing, presumably smocks and captured shoes that are stored in house, washing hands, social distancing and perhaps wearing masks and so forth)? I'd be worried about personnel safety if you're just spraying their entire bodies down and people are inhaling the fumes from the alcohol sanitizer on their clothes on a regular basis. I dunno, it seems to me there are more effective ways to ensure the employees are safe and that the food produced is safe. 

 

They will be wearing face PPE and the spraying is just from a spray bottle on their clothes. Is that more clear?

[The Food Scientist]

Just want to prove to top management it's a bad idea :) 

[kettlecorn]

Just want to prove to top management it's a bad idea :) 

Yeah, I think it's a pretty bad idea.  I don't see how it will help, and I can imagine all kinds of ways it could go bad. 

[mile]

Agree with kettlecorn, can expose worker to risk of fire.

[Ryan M.]

Well, you can't really disinfect a person with alcohol...I'm not sure you can disinfect their clothes with alcohol unless they are completely soaked with alcohol.  A spray might provide some kill to surface bacteria, but probably not that much considering clothing is porous.

 

A complete waste of time, money, and alcohol.

[zanorias]

It's a terrible idea. Firstly even assuming that sanitiser can effectively disinfect outer clothing, if someone has the virus they'd likely have contaminated their phone and pocket contents which they will no doubt frequently touch, re-contaminating everything after entry.
Secondly, there is the potential H&S issue of inhalation, damage to clothing, flammability etc. Thirdly, production staff (hopefully) already follow strict GMP and PPE protocols to ensure contamination is minimised on entry to the production facility, so it's just the other departments I'd be mainly focused on, where personally I'd put more controls in terms of hand sanitation and distancing. I.e. my NPD, finance and several other teams are working from home so that's made more space for the on-site office staff to spread out a bit, and they are now in the habit of sanitising hands frequently and door handles etc.

Best of luck in your meeting with top management The Food Scientist. As usual I can see the vague logic of the idea but they need to realise the flaws at the applied level. I was half expecting to see the "injection" suggestion when I opened the thread so that's a relief at least.

[Njaquino]

My company had that idea and I shot it down by telling them it is an employee hazard. Regardless if the employee is wearing PPE, sanitizers specify their use on the pail/ drum. Last thing you want is for your worker safety regulatory body to come down and find out you have been misusing chemicals. 

 

I assume they got their idea from the sanitizer tunnel that have appeared in China. I would not risk it as I have yet to find a solid paper stating it is working. 

[The Food Scientist]

Alright guys thank you! Another question:

 

What is everyone using for disinfection other than alcohol. (ONLY for contact surfaces and touch points, NOT FCS OR spraying people)

 

Sodium Hypochlorite (bleach) is one that is EPA registered that is effective against COVID-19. 

 

How is everyone mixing it? I am using the mixture reccomended by the manufacturer and EPA website. Top management is giving me a hard time that oh its toxic bla bla and no we can't (I guess they always like to prove us QA wrong). 

 

Even one of them is telling me chlorine gas is toxic. They think that's what Bleach is. (General Chemistry 101 is in a corner, sobbing). 

Edited by The Food Scientist, 29 April 2020 - 02:55 PM.

[MsMars]

To your original statement, a simple argument would be that I doubt that the SDS and/or TDS specifies that the product is meant to be applied in that manner....

 

We use a bleach solution for NFCS surface disinfection (offices, control rooms) and are mixing 1/2c per gallon. 

[MsMars]

 

Even one of them is telling me chlorine gas is toxic. They think that's what Bleach is. (General Chemistry 101 is in a corner, sobbing). 

 

Just also saw this last line... I mean, I can't even.... 

[The Food Scientist]

To your original statement, a simple argument would be that I doubt that the SDS and/or TDS specifies that the product is meant to be applied in that manner....

 

We use a bleach solution for NFCS surface disinfection (offices, control rooms) and are mixing 1/2c per gallon. 

 

Thank you!! Yes using 1/2cup per gallon and they are arguing how it is TOXIC and should not be used bla bla.... That is literally what is on the packaging label of the product and what everyone uses. 

 

Also do you rinse it after you let it sit on the surface? 

 

I am trying to find any articles about this so I have a good argument (although the proof is on the label of the product).

Edited by The Food Scientist, 29 April 2020 - 05:03 PM.

[Njaquino]

We are using a quat based sanitizer that is on the EPA n list. We follow manufacture direction which is 200 ppm. We do not rinse it after it has been applied rather wait for it to dry. 

[MsMars]

Thank you!! Yes using 1/2cup per gallon and they are arguing how it is TOXIC and should not be used bla bla.... That is literally what is on the packaging label of the product and what everyone uses. 

 

Also do you rinse it after you let it sit on the surface? 

 

I am trying to find any articles about this so I have a good argument (although the proof is on the label of the product).

 

No we do not rinse after application - just let sit for contact time, then wipe any excess with a damp cloth (which maybe could be considered rinsing?)

 

I am curious on their logic as to how they think household bleach used according to label is toxic, yet they want to spray down employees with an alcohol sanitizer. 

[Ryan M.]

Anything can be toxic / poisonous / damaging...it all depends on the quantity and duration of time.  Heck, even water and oxygen can hurt people.

 

Quat is a good option if you have the means and used in wet areas.  For dry areas stick to alcohol.  What is nice about quat compared to chlorine is that it is less corrosive and leaves a residual kill longer than chlorine.

 

If they are concerned about chlorine gas I wouldn't recommend mixing quat with the chlorine. :)

[El Molino]

For non -food contact surfaces such as common entry door handles, light switches, office desks we are using a 1% solution of Virkon  disinfectant. All food contact surfaces we use our recommended Ecolab products - best consult with your chemical sales rep for the best chemical use

[Charles.C]

For non -food contact surfaces such as common entry door handles, light switches, office desks we are using a 1% solution of Virkon  disinfectant. All food contact surfaces we use our recommended Ecolab products - best consult with your chemical sales rep for the best chemical use

 

Hi El Molino,

 

Thks input.

 

Virkon seems to be an interesting new product, apparently a mixture of potassium peroxymonosulfate, sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate, sulfamic acid and inorganic buffers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virkon