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#1 classic

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 06:51 AM

My company is looking at Face Shields rather than face masks.  They can be cleaned, sanitised and then reused.  Any views from the forum members, any reasons why not?  We have high risk areas. Looking for advice to put to senior management.

 

Thanks



#2 mile

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 07:37 AM

Face Shields not designed to protect against COVID-19, you can wear over face mask for more protection



#3 Charles.C

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:52 AM

Face Shields not designed to protect against COVID-19, you can wear over face mask for more protection

 

Perhaps you mean 100% ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#4 pmf

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 11:01 AM

I am also curious what other members think is a better protective measure and pros & cons of shields vs masks.

 

Many thanks.



#5 SQFconsultant

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 12:22 PM

I like face masks but it depends on what you are working with and environmemt factors that could cause fogging up.

If not an issue, your employees would still need to wear beard and hair nets.

As our virus researcher has indicated to us face masks only protect the user from TB, Smallpox and Ebola. CV is not airborne thus if the only reason for face masks is CV should be taken off.

Shields would need to be kept clean etc but a great idea as they protect the eyes as well without need for goggles.

You can check out youtube videos by dr. Mikovits and dr. Buttar as to why people should not wear face masks - it was an eye opener to me because while everyone is attempting to protect their health by wearing them the wearer can do more damage to themselves via re breathing spent air, stressing immune system etc.


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#6 Setanta

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 12:34 PM

https://en.wikipedia...i/Judy_Mikovits

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Rashid_Buttar


-Setanta         

 

 

 


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#7 kfromNE

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 12:40 PM

For face shields - you could use a safety goggle with face shield. We initially got these for eye protection and our sanitation likes them. The individuals who take the temperatures daily - use these and mask underneath.

 

https://www.fishersc...le-xtr/19706028


Edited by kfromNE, 14 May 2020 - 12:42 PM.


#8 MsMars

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 01:52 PM

I like face masks but it depends on what you are working with and environmemt factors that could cause fogging up.

If not an issue, your employees would still need to wear beard and hair nets.

As our virus researcher has indicated to us face masks only protect the user from TB, Smallpox and Ebola. CV is not airborne thus if the only reason for face masks is CV should be taken off.

Shields would need to be kept clean etc but a great idea as they protect the eyes as well without need for goggles.

You can check out youtube videos by dr. Mikovits and dr. Buttar as to why people should not wear face masks - it was an eye opener to me because while everyone is attempting to protect their health by wearing them the wearer can do more damage to themselves via re breathing spent air, stressing immune system etc.

 

While I respect you professionally, I am yet again disheartened that you are proposing that Mikovits and Buttar are legitimate scientists in a forum where people seek legitimate scientific information.



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#9 pHruit

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 01:57 PM

I am also curious what other members think is a better protective measure and pros & cons of shields vs masks.

 

Many thanks.

I don't think they're directly comparable as they're designed to do slightly different things, and indeed it's noteworthy that a lot of medical staff are expected to wear both at present (at least where they're not hopelessly under-resourced...)
Shields/visors are good at protecting the wearer from contaminants that are following a direct trajectory towards the face (e.g. into the eyes), so for example if you're in situation where you're in close proximity to other people who may potentially expel bodily fluids or similar directly then they are useful - for example to protect from sputum expelled by coughing in close proximity. Hopefully there isn't too much coughing or indeed other potential hazards involving direct expulsion of bodily fluids happening in food factories in general! 

Viral particles carried on droplets that are relatively small will not be stopped so readily by a visor, as air current will affect their path and can easily get around the sides of the visor, whereas a properly fitting mask filters all air entering the mouth and nose, and even an ill-fitting one provides far fewer entry routes than a shield.

For general purpose use I'd personally consider the mask the significant preference ;)



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#10 Timwoodbag

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 03:20 PM

Here in my specific state, shields would not cover the governors order to wear masks.  Double check with your local government.  I see you are UK, but, here OSHA is heavily suggesting the use of masks.  

 

From OSHA's Guidance to industry:

 

Develop Policies and Procedures for Prompt Identification and Isolation of Sick People, if Appropriate

■ Prompt identification and isolation of potentially infectious individuals is a critical step in protecting workers, customers, visitors, and others at a worksite.

 

■ Employers should inform and encourage employees to self-monitor for signs and symptoms of COVID-19 if they suspect possible exposure.

 

■ Employers should develop policies and procedures for employees to report when they are sick or experiencing symptoms of COVID-19. OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION 1 0

 

■ Where appropriate, employers should develop policies and procedures for immediately isolating people who have signs and/or symptoms of COVID-19, and train workers to implement them. Move potentially infectious people to a location away from workers, customers, and other visitors. Although most worksites do not have specific isolation rooms, designated areas with closable doors may serve as isolation rooms until potentially sick people can be removed from the worksite.

 

Take steps to limit spread of the respiratory secretions of a person who may have COVID-19. Provide a face mask, if feasible and available, and ask the person to wear it, if tolerated. Note: A face mask (also called a surgical mask, procedure mask, or other similar terms) on a patient or other sick person should not be confused with PPE for a worker; the mask acts to contain potentially infectious respiratory secretions at the source (i.e., the person’s nose and mouth).



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#11 Ryan M.

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:49 PM

 

:eek_yello:



#12 Ryan M.

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:51 PM

So yes...COVID is not airborne, BUT it is spread by droplets which comes from coughing or sneezing; it is a respiratory illness after all.

 

Face protection that prevents the spreading of droplets from a sneeze or cough is the entire point.  If the face shield provides adequate protection for this then they are a good option.  As far as cleaning and sanitizing, I would make sure you follow a disinfection method because disinfecting is not the same as sanitizing.



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#13 Charles.C

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 06:32 AM

Regarding masks here are some previous "expert" comments - 

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...th/#entry159631

https://www.ifsqn.co...ty/#entry158212

https://www.ifsqn.co...ty/#entry158332

 

 

CDC have this for masks -

 

Cloth face coverings in meat and poultry processing facilities
 

CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings as a protective measure in addition to social distancing (i.e., staying at least 6 feet away from others). Cloth face coverings may be especially important when social distancing is not possible or feasible based on working conditions. A cloth face covering may reduce the amount of large respiratory droplets that a person spreads when talking, sneezing, or coughing. Cloth face coverings may prevent people who do not know they have the virus that causes COVID-19 from spreading it to others. Cloth face coverings are intended to protect other people—not the wearer.

Cloth face coverings are not PPE. They are not appropriate substitutes for PPE such as respirators (like N95 respirators) or medical facemasks (like surgical masks) in workplaces where respirators or facemasks are recommended or required to protect the wearer.

 

While wearing cloth face coverings is a public health measure intended to reduce the spread of COVID-19 in communities, it may not be practical for workers to wear a single cloth face covering for the full duration of a work shift (e.g., eight or more hours) in a meat or poultry processing facility if they become wet, soiled, or otherwise visibly contaminated during the work shift. If cloth face coverings are worn in these facilities, employers should provide readily available clean cloth face coverings (or disposable facemask options) for workers to use when the coverings become wet, soiled, or otherwise visibly contaminated.

 

Employers who determine that cloth face coverings should be worn in the workplace, including to comply with state or local requirements for their use, should ensure the cloth face coverings:

  • fit over the nose and mouth and fit snugly but comfortably against the side of the face;
  • are secured with ties or ear loops;
  • include multiple layers of fabric;
  • allow for breathing without restriction;
  • can be laundered using the warmest appropriate water setting and machine dried daily after the shift, without damage or change to shape (a clean cloth face covering should be used each day);
  • are not used if they become wet or contaminated;
  • are replaced with clean replacements, provided by employer, as needed.
  • are handled as little as possible to prevent transferring infectious materials to the cloth; and
  • are not worn with or instead of respiratory protection when respirators are needed.

 

 

and for shields -

 

Face shields may serve as both PPE and source control:

  • If helmets are being used, use face shields designed to attach to helmets.
  • Face shields can provide additional protection from both potential process-related splashes and potential person-to-person droplet spread.
    • Safety glasses may fog up when used in combination with masks or cloth face coverings.
    • Only some face shields are acceptable substitutions for eye protection (such as safety glasses) that are used for impact protection; facilities should consult with an occupational safety and health professional concerning the use of face shields.
  • Face shields can help minimize contamination of masks and cloth face coverings
  • If used, face shields should be cleaned and decontaminated after each shift, and when not in use they should be kept in a clean location at the work facility.
  • If used, face shields should also wrap around the sides of the wearer’s face and extend to below the chin.

 

 

The above are extracted from a lengthy and rather impressive CDC presentation oriented to - Meat and Poultry Processing Workers and Employers

https://www.cdc.gov/...-employers.html

 

Additionally -  on shields - just like "masks" there appear to be various "Types" of shield, eg I noticed these comments -

 

Face shield specifics:

  • The design is based on open-source face shield models, similar to a 3D-printed visor recommended by the NIH;
  • However, the recommended NIH design uses a swept-back headband that adds significant weight and decreased mold-ability;
  • Fictiv has adapted the design to add a closed top, which is more consistent with ANSI standards;
  • This design weighs under 50g and will be made using a material that provides the visor greater flex and comfort for lengthy all-day wear;
  • This design also offers room under the face shield for goggles or larger respirators.

 

https://www.todaysme...y-capabilities/

 

And an extract from an FDA info document for Face Shield Manufacturers (for Health Care Workers) relating to a limited supply scenario -
 

 

A face shield is a device used to protect the user's eyes and face from bodily fluids, liquid splashes, or potentially
infectious materials. Generally, a face shield is situated at the crown of the head and is constructed with plastic to
cover the user’s eyes and face. Face shields can be intended for medical or nonmedical (e.g., industrial) purposes.
Face shields intended for a medical purpose are regulated by FDA under 21 CFR 878.4040 – Surgical apparel.
These devices are classified as class I (general controls) and are exempt from the premarket notification
requirements in 21 CFR Part 807 (“510(k) clearance”).  FDA is issuing this EUA in light of availability concerns to
help increase the availability of currently marketed and new face shields for medical purposes during the COVID-19
pandemic. Such face shields may provide “minimal or low barrier protection,” meaning Level 1 or Level 2
protection or equivalent under the FDA-recognized standard ANSI/AAMI PB70: Liquid barrier performance and
classification of protective apparel and drapes intended for use in health care facilities

 

Attached File  Face Shield Manufacturers,130420.pdf   216.01KB   2 downloads

 

This recent article reviews/evaluates experiences with shields and (briefly) compares to masks -

https://jamanetwork....article/2765525

 

This pre-print article reviews the success potential for masks against Covid-19 virus. Note the comments on airborne "potential".

Attached File  Use of face masks against Covid-19.pdf   220.55KB   7 downloads

 

PS - trialled a cheap but frontally well enclosed shield for public use. Two snags - (a) fogging from hot>cool environment, (b) sweating in hot environment. Semi-enclosed designs (not sealed at top) predictably had less sweating/fogging problems. Dozens of permutations on U-tube.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#14 SQFconsultant

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 12:58 PM

 

Thanks, that was interesting.

 

This is a good article - with references too.

 

https://www.technocr...to-the-healthy/

 

We are using this article along with some details on how food companies will be in violation of ADA and HIPPA if they continue to require employees to wear masks -- we actually see lots of class action lawsuits coming up from employees against their employers, which is why virtually all of our clients have changed direction and stopped the face mask requirement.

 

I'm sure you could find something against Dr. B as well, but he is one of our go-to Doctors for staying alive personnally and for advisement as a consultant.


Kind regards,

 

Glenn Oster
 
GOC GROUP / +1.800.793.7042 / Food - Food Packaging - Food Storage/DC

SQF, BRC & IFS System Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants

Serving Small-to-Mid-Size Businesses | We are International - Accepting all major C-Currencies

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#15 olenazh

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 01:21 PM

Thanks, that was interesting.

 

This is a good article - with references too.

 

https://www.technocr...to-the-healthy/

 

We are using this article along with some details on how food companies will be in violation of ADA and HIPPA if they continue to require employees to wear masks -- we actually see lots of class action lawsuits coming up from employees against their employers, which is why virtually all of our clients have changed direction and stopped the face mask requirement.

 

I'm sure you could find something against Dr. B as well, but he is one of our go-to Doctors for staying alive personnally and for advisement as a consultant.

 

Thanks a lot Glenn, that's really interesting. But on the other hand, the more information people have (and I'm talking about both groups, management and workers) the more confused they become as this is a human nature to consume information without analyzing its content. The danger is that most of information is a mix of truth and lie (in different percentage), and it's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff:) I think, people still tend to accept information from trusted sources which are still government advisories.



#16 kettlecorn

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 02:07 PM

https://theoutline.c...d=1&zi=p4iqpkm3

 

https://www.acsh.org...integrity-11861



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#17 Ryan M.

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 07:15 PM

 

This guy reminds me of Vani Hari, infamous "Food Babe", who are seen as so-called "experts", but are really looking to boost their notoriety based from scare tactics.

 

Sad these are so many people who see "fame" as a marker of credibility.



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#18 kfromNE

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 08:08 PM

Thanks, that was interesting.

 

This is a good article - with references too.

 

https://www.technocr...to-the-healthy/

 

We are using this article along with some details on how food companies will be in violation of ADA and HIPPA if they continue to require employees to wear masks -- we actually see lots of class action lawsuits coming up from employees against their employers, which is why virtually all of our clients have changed direction and stopped the face mask requirement.

 

I'm sure you could find something against Dr. B as well, but he is one of our go-to Doctors for staying alive personnally and for advisement as a consultant.

 

 

Not sure how masks are in violation of ADA and HIPPA. For ADA purposes - if someone has a reason they can't wear a mask - then we work with them. If someone does need accommodation then as long as the information is kept private and only essential people know - you shouldn't violate HIPPA either. 



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#19 kettlecorn

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 10:44 PM

Not sure how masks are in violation of ADA and HIPPA. For ADA purposes - if someone has a reason they can't wear a mask - then we work with them. If someone does need accommodation then as long as the information is kept private and only essential people know - you shouldn't violate HIPPA either. 

Yeah--unfortunately, like many of SQFconsultant's other opinions about COVID-19, this is a baseless claim that collapses under scrutiny. We aren't going to see lawsuits from employees that companies are in violation of ADA and HIPPA for requiring workers to wear masks in order to protect themselves and others from the virus. If anything, we are seeing the exact opposite (not confined to the food industry): complaints from employees that companies aren't doing enough to protect them. Employees are already widely speaking out.

 

https://www.theguard...ditions-sickout

 

https://www.sacbee.c...e241718981.html



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#20 Charles.C

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:21 PM

My company is looking at Face Shields rather than face masks.  They can be cleaned, sanitised and then reused.  Any views from the forum members, any reasons why not?  We have high risk areas. Looking for advice to put to senior management.

 

Thanks

 

The simple answer is yes but possibly depending on the specific construction, eg blocks of urethane foam may present a problem.

 

I enclose an example which complies your requirements.

 

Attached File  Covid Face Shield, Construction and Cleaning.details.pdf   5.47MB   6 downloads

 

PS - the above is a quite popular basic design which is elaborated in various forms on utube. I am no expert but a potential criticism of the design is leakage via the  "ventilation" portion. Attempts to improve the latter aspect exist, eg -

 

Attached File  face shield.pdf   86.68KB   4 downloads


Edited by Charles.C, 18 May 2020 - 04:45 PM.
expanded

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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#21 kettlecorn

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:46 PM

Not sure how masks are in violation of ADA and HIPPA. For ADA purposes - if someone has a reason they can't wear a mask - then we work with them. If someone does need accommodation then as long as the information is kept private and only essential people know - you shouldn't violate HIPPA either. 

Also, as a follow up to the question of lawsuits and so forth, on the way to work today I actually heard a discussion about this case on the radio:

 

https://www.politico...onavirus-211632

 

Here are a few other articles that may be pertinent to demonstrate that, if anything, employees are complaining that there is too little PPE, including masks:

 

https://www.washingt...rus-complaints/

 

https://www.forbes.c...9/#4bb1747e58b6



#22 The Food Scientist

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:47 PM

 

I just had a good laugh! :roflmao:


Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.


#23 The Food Scientist

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:49 PM

So yes...COVID is not airborne, BUT it is spread by droplets which comes from coughing or sneezing; it is a respiratory illness after all.

 

Face protection that prevents the spreading of droplets from a sneeze or cough is the entire point.  If the face shield provides adequate protection for this then they are a good option.  As far as cleaning and sanitizing, I would make sure you follow a disinfection method because disinfecting is not the same as sanitizing.

 

Thank you. We are also using them to prevent any spread of droplets or such. It is still a good protective gear that covers your face from any particles. 


Edited by The Food Scientist, 18 May 2020 - 04:52 PM.

Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.


#24 The Food Scientist

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 04:54 PM

My company is looking at Face Shields rather than face masks.  They can be cleaned, sanitised and then reused.  Any views from the forum members, any reasons why not?  We have high risk areas. Looking for advice to put to senior management.

 

Thanks

 

If you have a good procedure for cleaning, sanitizing and reusing with the proper management, then go ahead. For us it has not been easy to manage, so we had them change them daily. Because I also noticed they wear out with time from cleaning too much. 

 

Face shields are a really good protective gear from any droplets. It prevents an ill person from passing any particles to their surroundings. They are very annoying to wear too lol. But we had to learn the hard way after most of us got infected.


Edited by The Food Scientist, 18 May 2020 - 04:55 PM.

Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.





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