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How should we validate test pieces used to monitor our CCP of metal detection?

calibration validation

Best Answer Charles.C, 03 June 2020 - 05:16 AM

We still do MD internal validation every year, including external calibration/verification and daily monitoring every hour during production. If the MD breaks down and requires external services, MD validation is carried out right after the repair before use in production.

 

Our MD validation is done by the following:

1. Passing all test pieces (we have 2, 2.5 & 3mm) multiple times on the MD in different locations (left, right, centre), ensuring that each pass of test piece is rejected

2. Passing different finished products we produced (w/ different sizes, w/ diff components) multiple times with the test pieces on multiple locations (left, centre, right), ensuring that each pass of finished products with test piece is rejected

3. Passing different metal objects (rejected by MD throughout the years) on the different finished products, placing on varying locations in the product (top, bottom, left, right), ensuring that each metal object is rejected.

 

Ours maybe a bit excessive, but this works for us and every auditor have accepted this MD validation without question.

Strictly there is a further element to the above but SQF fortunately appear oblivious to this. See -

 

https://techni-k.co....ion-validation/

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#1 nidiagonzc

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 04:57 PM

Hi

 

I was wondering if someone knows how  we should validate the test pieces we use to monitor our CCP of metal detection. I working in a packaging company that works with product such as peanuts, nuts, jellys, sweets, sugar, chocolates, etc. This validation is not documented and an auditor requested. Our metal detectors are vertical systems and we use drop-balls for testing.

 

Also, how we can set a critical limit in metal detectors?

 

Thanks



#2 Charles.C

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 05:23 PM

Hi

 

I was wondering if someone knows how  we should validate the test pieces we use to monitor our CCP of metal detection. I working in a packaging company that works with product such as peanuts, nuts, jellys, sweets, sugar, chocolates, etc. This validation is not documented and an auditor requested. Our metal detectors are vertical systems and we use drop-balls for testing.

 

Also, how we can set a critical limit in metal detectors?

 

Thanks

I asume you refer to ferrous, non-ferrous and stainless steel pieces.

 

Test pieces should come with a Certificate as to composition and size.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#3 nidiagonzc

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 08:38 PM

We have this test pieces and the external certification, but the auditor ask for how we do the internal validation of this pieces.



#4 Charles.C

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 02:01 AM

We have this test pieces and the external certification, but the auditor ask for how we do the internal validation of this pieces.

Can you post the specific query as per the auditor's report ?

 

If the certificate is appropriately presented, eg contains mention of traceability to recognized standard, etc then I suspect that some kind of a communication error has occurred. The typical queries relate to routine calibration of the machine and validation of the sensitivity for detection


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#5 harmsome

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 05:51 AM

I asume you refer to ferrous, non-ferrous and stainless steel pieces.

 

Test pieces should come with a Certificate as to composition and size.

 

Are these the certificates valid indefinitely or do they have validity period?



#6 Charles.C

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 06:59 AM

Are these the certificates valid indefinitely or do they have validity period?

example attached -

 

Attached File  CoC - 0.30mmFE-70325.pdf   30.97KB   21 downloads

 

an extended discussion here -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ces/#entry66109

 

@nidiagonzc - would be possible to have the size calibrated by a 3rd Party however the ball is usually encapsulated so destruction involved. I have never had an auditor query a Certificate.

 

Regarding critical limit, there are many threads here on this topic. The answer is typically, using a standard set-up/alignment, the minimum size test piece of given composition which will be consistently detected/rejected by machine for a given food matrix. Also known as the Sensitivity.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#7 nidiagonzc

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 10:52 AM

example attached -

 

attachicon.gif CoC - 0.30mmFE-70325.pdf

 

an extended discussion here -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ces/#entry66109

 

@nidiagonzc - would be possible to have the size calibrated by a 3rd Party however the ball is usually encapsulated so destruction involved. I have never had an auditor query a Certificate.

 

Regarding critical limit, there are many threads here on this topic. The answer is typically, using a standard set-up/alignment, the minimum size test piece of given composition which will be consistently detected/rejected by machine for a given food matrix. Also known as the Sensitivity.

 

We have got a certificate for every test piece, but the auditor said how we are sure are effective for our metal detectors. We showed all our certifications (for tests pieces) and verification of metal detectors (for external company every six months). 



#8 Charles.C

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 02:04 PM

We have got a certificate for every test piece, but the auditor said how we are sure are effective for our metal detectors. We showed all our certifications (for tests pieces) and verification of metal detectors (for external company every six months). 

I suggest you contact the auditor and ask him/her what they meant by "effective".

 

Did you get a NC ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#9 mgourley

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 03:05 PM

What are the sizes of your test pieces?

 

I think what the auditor is getting at is "why did you choose these sizes?"

 

Let's say you use 3mm Fe, 3mm non-Fe and 4mm S/S. Have you tested your MD with 2, 2, 3? Does it reliably detect those sizes? If so, you should use 2, 2, and 3.

If not, you should have a document that states  that you have tested the sensitivity of your MD with various test piece sizes and X, Y and Z size are always detected, thus this is why we use this size.

 

Personally, I think the auditor is picking nits, but it's easy enough to solve this.

 

Marshall



#10 Charles.C

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 06:01 PM

What are the sizes of your test pieces?

 

I think what the auditor is getting at is "why did you choose these sizes?"

 

Let's say you use 3mm Fe, 3mm non-Fe and 4mm S/S. Have you tested your MD with 2, 2, 3? Does it reliably detect those sizes? If so, you should use 2, 2, and 3.

If not, you should have a document that states  that you have tested the sensitivity of your MD with various test piece sizes and X, Y and Z size are always detected, thus this is why we use this size.

 

Personally, I think the auditor is picking nits, but it's easy enough to solve this.

 

Marshall

Note that there was also a query regarding critical limit.

And yes, I agree with yr conclusion.

Or, possibly, a communication problem.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#11 mgourley

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 06:21 PM

Charles,

Well the Critical Limit would be whatever the MD is capable of detecting.

 

Marshall



#12 Charles.C

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 06:07 AM

Charles,

Well the Critical Limit would be whatever the MD is capable of detecting.

 

Marshall

 

See Posts 4, 6. 8

 

@ nidiagonzc ??


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#13 nidiagonzc

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 04:14 AM

Our pieces are 1.5 ferrous, 2.0 Non-Ferrous and 2.5 SS. Unfortunately, we haven't got any document that Talk about our metal detector is capable to detect this pieces. So the auditor ask about how we now these pieces is capable to detect.

I contact the auditor as to be honest I think is enough with certification of external validacion, bit he said companies use to do validation of test pieces (example make 20 passes of each piece and if there is not rejections then this pieces are suitable for our MD), and have that document. Did someone have experience with this in the past?

Thanks to all for your comments



#14 Charles.C

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:18 AM

Our pieces are 1.5 ferrous, 2.0 Non-Ferrous and 2.5 SS. Unfortunately, we haven't got any document that Talk about our metal detector is capable to detect this pieces. So the auditor ask about how we now these pieces is capable to detect.

I contact the auditor as to be honest I think is enough with certification of external validacion, bit he said companies use to do validation of test pieces (example make 20 passes of each piece and if there is not rejections then this pieces are suitable for our MD), and have that document. Did someone have experience with this in the past?

Thanks to all for your comments

It sounds like you have not done any validation of the MD sensitivity which is typically a part of yr MD's critical limit.

If so, it's absolutely logical  that the auditor had a problem since validation of critical limits is a basic requirement of every food standard.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#15 nidiagonzc

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 01:10 PM

Any idea where I can find information about it? Or a procedure to do it?



#16 nidiagonzc

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 01:10 PM

Any idea where I can find information about it? Or a procedure to do it?



#17 nidiagonzc

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 01:11 PM

Any idea where I can find information about it? Or a procedure to do it?



#18 majoy

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 01:15 PM

We still do MD internal validation every year, including external calibration/verification and daily monitoring every hour during production. If the MD breaks down and requires external services, MD validation is carried out right after the repair before use in production.

 

Our MD validation is done by the following:

1. Passing all test pieces (we have 2, 2.5 & 3mm) multiple times on the MD in different locations (left, right, centre), ensuring that each pass of test piece is rejected

2. Passing different finished products we produced (w/ different sizes, w/ diff components) multiple times with the test pieces on multiple locations (left, centre, right), ensuring that each pass of finished products with test piece is rejected

3. Passing different metal objects (rejected by MD throughout the years) on the different finished products, placing on varying locations in the product (top, bottom, left, right), ensuring that each metal object is rejected.

 

Ours maybe a bit excessive, but this works for us and every auditor have accepted this MD validation without question.


"Whatever you do, do it well..." - Walt Disney


#19 Charles.C

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 05:16 AM   Best Answer

We still do MD internal validation every year, including external calibration/verification and daily monitoring every hour during production. If the MD breaks down and requires external services, MD validation is carried out right after the repair before use in production.

 

Our MD validation is done by the following:

1. Passing all test pieces (we have 2, 2.5 & 3mm) multiple times on the MD in different locations (left, right, centre), ensuring that each pass of test piece is rejected

2. Passing different finished products we produced (w/ different sizes, w/ diff components) multiple times with the test pieces on multiple locations (left, centre, right), ensuring that each pass of finished products with test piece is rejected

3. Passing different metal objects (rejected by MD throughout the years) on the different finished products, placing on varying locations in the product (top, bottom, left, right), ensuring that each metal object is rejected.

 

Ours maybe a bit excessive, but this works for us and every auditor have accepted this MD validation without question.

Strictly there is a further element to the above but SQF fortunately appear oblivious to this. See -

 

https://techni-k.co....ion-validation/


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#20 nidiagonzc

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 05:42 PM

Thank you all so much for your help🙂







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