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Is cooking potatoes a CCP?

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Jackobelly

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Posted 12 June 2020 - 08:22 PM

Hello,

 

I am working on a food safety plan for stuffed baked potatoes and I am not sure how to handle to cooking process.

 

Process: Potato washing - Baking (60Min 200C) - flattening/pressing (to get a flat side of the shell for easier filling) - cooling - cutting & scooping - deep frying (5min 175C) -  freezing - filling with stuffing - freezing (customer heats product up before eating).

 

The potatoes can be contaminated from the soil and wash water before baking, so baking as the first heat treatment would be the step to reduce the pathogens. Baking would be the critical control step with the critical limits time and temperature.

 

However if the potatoes are not baked enough we can't flatten them enough so we would automatically put them back in the oven (which hardly ever happens). we always bake them for 60min at 200C, but would we have to record baking temperature/ time for each batch?

 

OR can deep frying be the CCP as the last heat treatment in our process? and if deep-frying is the CCP, would we have to record frying time and oil temperature?

 

OR are both heat treatments (baking, deep-frying) not critical control steps, the process is controlled by written recipes, employee training and the final heating by the consumers?

 

I can't find many resources about the heat treatment of potatoes.

 

Any inputs are very much appreciated.

Thank you



Ryan M.

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Posted 12 June 2020 - 10:57 PM

I would record the temperatures and times for both the baking and frying.  One of these would be your CCP, likely the initial bake step.

 

Have you monitored the internal temperatures of the potatoes at the end of each step to verify the baking and the frying cook to that temperature through and through?



Charles.C

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Posted 14 June 2020 - 09:42 PM

Hello,

 

I am working on a food safety plan for stuffed baked potatoes and I am not sure how to handle to cooking process.

 

Process: Potato washing - Baking (60Min 200C) - flattening/pressing (to get a flat side of the shell for easier filling) - cooling - cutting & scooping - deep frying (5min 175C) -  freezing - filling with stuffing - freezing (customer heats product up before eating).

 

The potatoes can be contaminated from the soil and wash water before baking, so baking as the first heat treatment would be the step to reduce the pathogens. Baking would be the critical control step with the critical limits time and temperature.

 

However if the potatoes are not baked enough we can't flatten them enough so we would automatically put them back in the oven (which hardly ever happens). we always bake them for 60min at 200C, but would we have to record baking temperature/ time for each batch?

 

OR can deep frying be the CCP as the last heat treatment in our process? and if deep-frying is the CCP, would we have to record frying time and oil temperature?

 

OR are both heat treatments (baking, deep-frying) not critical control steps, the process is controlled by written recipes, employee training and the final heating by the consumers?

 

I can't find many resources about the heat treatment of potatoes.

 

Any inputs are very much appreciated.

Thank you

 

Standard (if any) is unknown.

 

Is the product designated as RTE ?

 

If so, I anticipate that the deep fry step (conditions unknown) will be a CCP. and validation of this step will usually be required.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


GMO

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 08:51 AM

I think the question around "is this process step specifically designed to reduce this hazard..." (or however it's worded) is one to remember here.  Where you have a heat process which is specifically designed to make the product edible but it also incidentally makes it safe, then to my mind it's not a CCP.  Basically what you have is a heat process which kills pathogens at a temperature and time combination far below that required for an acceptable product.  So to my mind, neither steps are a CCP but that said, you should have prerequisites to avoid post processing contamination.



Charles.C

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 09:26 AM

Hello! I found these method https://books.google...oes CCP&f=false

I do not see any haccp-related info. ??

 

@GMO - Yes, = reason I asked whether RTE.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Jackobelly

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 03:44 PM

@ Charles.C the product is frozen, technically fully cooked so it could be eaten like that but it's more so ready to heat. We have reheating instructions: bake at 350F for 45min or until internal temperature reaches 180F. This is not for food safety but for quality.

 

@ GMO: Thank you! That's exactly how I think about it too! our cooking step is to make it edible and way above required temperatures to kill pathogens.



Charles.C

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 07:58 PM

@ Charles.C the product is frozen, technically fully cooked so it could be eaten like that but it's more so ready to heat. We have reheating instructions: bake at 350F for 45min or until internal temperature reaches 180F. This is not for food safety but for quality.

 

@ GMO: Thank you! That's exactly how I think about it too! our cooking step is to make it edible and way above required temperatures to kill pathogens.

Perhaps I should have rephrased my query.

 

I speculate that  legally this product is regarded as  NRTE. If so the heating steps have afaik no requirement for demonstrating validation as to achieving 5D, 6D whatever. If so any micro.hazard is, from a haccp POV, being controlled  by the consumer, ie no significant process hazard and no CCP..

Similarly, from a haccp POV,  yr understanding that reheat is not for safety is incorrect.

IIRC, a similar "fudge" occurs for certain FDA/FSIS products. Technically legitimate but consumer-wise perhaps questionable.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Jackobelly

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 09:22 PM

Perhaps I should have rephrased my query.

 

I speculate that  legally this product is regarded as  NRTE. If so the heating steps have afaik no requirement for demonstrating validation as to achieving 5D, 6D whatever. If so any micro.hazard is, from a haccp POV, being controlled  by the consumer, ie no significant process hazard and no CCP..

Similarly, from a haccp POV,  yr understanding that reheat is not for safety is incorrect.

IIRC, a similar "fudge" occurs for certain FDA/FSIS products. Technically legitimate but consumer-wise perhaps questionable.

 

Thanks for the explenation.

 

So you say if we call the product NRTE and stick with our baking instructions for consumers then our heat treatment is not critical, correct?

 

How about cooling the filling? we are required to cool down food within certain time and temperature limits. From my understanding cool down is always considered a ccp by cfia no matter if the product is RTE or not. Cooling would remain critical, do you agree?

 

Thanks for your inputs!



Charles.C

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 08:37 AM

Thanks for the explenation.

 

So you say if we call the product NRTE and stick with our baking instructions for consumers then our heat treatment is not critical, correct?

 

How about cooling the filling? we are required to cool down food within certain time and temperature limits. From my understanding cool down is always considered a ccp by cfia no matter if the product is RTE or not. Cooling would remain critical, do you agree?

 

Thanks for your inputs!

 

My speculations were oriented to USA, unfortunately no idea about Canadian Regs,

 

As I understand yr OP/Post6, the process (temperature/times) are designed (somehow) to produce a RTE finished product, (irrespective of the labelling).

 

I have done some searching over this issue, yr process looks partially analogous to the (mainly US) discussion in these threads -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...r-rtc-products/

(esp. Post7)

https://www.ifsqn.co...ook/#entry60297

 

Post 7 of first link implies that I was incorrect in post 7( this thread), ie the haccp plan should be geared to the (actual) operational flowchart,

 

Regarding CCPs, I anticipate the temperatures you mention in OP are not product core values. The latter determine temperature profile/lethality.

 

May need to estimate lethalities at the 2 heating stages to decide on CCP(s)

 

Similarly cooling often typical CCP due possible survival non-vegetative entities, eg Bacillus.spores.

 

PS these link (and others) are also relevant to FSIS Regulatory interpretation -

 

https://askfsis.cust...UxNclElMjElMjE=

 

https://askfsis.cust...ality-treatment


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C




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