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How do you deal with someone not recording in real time and back-dated


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maylao123

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 06:33 PM

Hi Everyone,

 

We observed that some of our operators don't make record in real-time and sometimes rewrite back-dated records.

Have retrained them many times but still repeat same mistake. Questioned them about the reason of doing it, they explained they would rather rewrite a reasonable record than a messy one with a lot of corrections. Please help what good measures we can put in place to avoid this non-compliance. Thanks.



olenazh

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 06:42 PM

As per CFIA, records shall be genuine with corrections made properly (e.g. incorrect information shall be crossed out with ONE line and initialized by an operator making those changes). I've done several trainings explaining people how to make correction properly (they tended to cross words with curly lines), but after I've made some operators re-write the whole production report with the same corrections made as required they started to pay more attention to their writing.  



Setanta

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:19 PM

That doesn't sound like an error, that sounds like falsifying records. Check with HR to see if you can go down the disciplinary route. I wouldn't recommend tolerating this.


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SQFconsultant

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 07:41 PM

Termination for fraud.


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Ryan M.

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Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:26 PM

Determine if they have the actual time to make proper records or if their job demands are so high.  This may certainly be a factor and if so, the process of record keeping must be evaluated for the position.

 

If they have the time to record keeping appropriately they must keep real time records that are clear and understandable.  Any corrections must be legible.

 

If they cannot keep these records as such disciplinary must result.  Get HR involved and their immediate supervisor / manager.



Charles.C

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 01:19 AM

Hi Everyone,

 

We observed that some of our operators don't make record in real-time and sometimes rewrite back-dated records.

Have retrained them many times but still repeat same mistake. Questioned them about the reason of doing it, they explained they would rather rewrite a reasonable record than a messy one with a lot of corrections. Please help what good measures we can put in place to avoid this non-compliance. Thanks.

 

Hi maylao,

 

The excuse quoted is indefensible.

 

It sounds like a Policy Issue.

 

Are you responsible for the HR Function  (if it exists)?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


zanorias

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 01:25 PM

Aside from the HR/disciplinary route which should indeed follow purposefully falsifying paperwork, I'd also have a look into why the original sheet would be "messy with a lot of corrections" to begin with - why isn't the correct information being conveyed/recorded at the time?



MMQA

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 02:25 PM

Make sure you document this under falsification in whichever format you are using at your facility such as a CAR or similar. I always include a copy of the record and a re training for the employee. This is reported to their manager/supervisor as well as HR. It would be their responsibility to decide disciplinary action based on your finding. When operators keep having the same violation, It is usually because they know they wont face any consequences. Disciplinary action might be out of your control, which in my experience, is a difficult obstacle. Depending on the document, there might be consequences that you would decide. For example, if it is a CCP, PC record, maybe the production needs to go on Hold pending an inspection, approval, etc. This would bring attention to the importance of records since it would affect productivity ($)



biglor

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 10:15 AM

It really seems like fraud.



GMO

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 10:27 AM

Hi Everyone,

 

We observed that some of our operators don't make record in real-time and sometimes rewrite back-dated records.

Have retrained them many times but still repeat same mistake. Questioned them about the reason of doing it, they explained they would rather rewrite a reasonable record than a messy one with a lot of corrections. Please help what good measures we can put in place to avoid this non-compliance. Thanks.

 

This is a management issue not a quality one.

 

I assume you have senior management commitment on this?  I also assume the requirement and the why is clear?  I.e. that operations are legal records and so must be completed in real time.  I also assume people are trained on this?  If so, conduct a disciplinary investigation.  Give a few people verbal warnings and it will soon change.



trubertq

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 11:35 AM

Back up there people.... Don't immediately jump to the conclusion that people are being fraudulent!!

if it is a wet and dirty environment people can be trying to keep records clean and dry.

 

I explain to them that we ( and auditors though that is less important)  want to see wet and dirty records because it is proof positive that the record was on the production floor. 

 

There may also be a time issue as one of the other posters mentioned. Take the personnel involved and sit with them and go through the record. Sometimes records are created without input from the person who will be filling the record which is no use. The record MUST be user friendly otherwise this post recording will happen. 

 

Sometimes you may have to go through many iterations of the same record before you hit the right one, but you MUST MUST MUST get the input of the recorder. 


I'm entitled to my opinion, even a stopped clock is right twice a day

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Fishlady

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 04:24 AM

As Truebertq pointed out, especially in a wet environment the papers can get messy very quickly. But when people try to rewrite the document to “make it look prettier,” I have insisted that they attach the original “messy” document so that the original information is retained.



johnmcip

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Posted 19 April 2021 - 11:13 PM

Termination for fraud.

 

Maybe, but it would depend heavily on the nature of the backdating and revisions. Are they scribbling out nonconformities? Are they backdating by months?

Verifying CCP records weekly will mostly likely not do. Though some records verified next day, or even the end of the week is acceptable. Even then I wouldn't let it get too far out of hand.

I would recommend your reaction be proportional to the effects to the quality and safety system overall. That also includes morale.

Possible corrective actions could be:

  • Retrain on expectations and the importance of accurate records. It may be wise to give some fake leeway on the timeline for verification (unimportant documents may be signed the next day) to appear to meet in the middle. That's completely up to your style.
  • Disciplinary action if they just cant get it through their (thick) skull. warnings > termination
  • Reassign responsibilities. Not everyone is good at filling out paperwork, but may be experts when it comes to stacking pallets, and as much as it hurts people like us you just have to let them do what they do best.





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