6 replies to this topic

[rtorres]

Hello everyone, if someone is on the HACCP team can they still audit the HACCP portion of BRC when it comes to Internal Audits. Thanks for the help and happy holidays.

[Marloes]

Hi Ramiro,

 

You cannot audit your own work.
I have in the past (when I was responsible for the risk analysis etc.) had a direct collegeau from my QA team audit this part for the internal audit.
I in return audited the parts that she was responsible for (training, micro etc.).

If you have the funds I find that it is best to outsource my internal auditing (consultant or other external party). But it can be too costly for a smaller company and than the above will work fine.

[mohamed ahmed yusuf]

Hello Ramiro, 

 

The owner of program i think is Food safety and HACCP team leader it could be Quality assurance head or manager, main principale is being intependant so the owner of this program can't audit his program but another memeber could do it (member of HACCP)

[zoelawton]

'Internal audits shall be carried out by appropriately trained, competent auditors. Auditors shall be independent (e.g. not audit their own work). 

 

I was picked up on this in our July BRC audit. 

 

I am HACCP team leader, QC, technical (illegitimately), FSQM implementer, doc control and internal auditor - i was auditing internally without having being trained and auditing all sections. 

 

So no, not really, i think you'd be OK if you're a small site and the HACCP team member isn't the HACCP team leader...

 

It's tricky, there are only 2 adequate internal auditors with BRC knowledge on my site, me and another who has no time for anything technical etc. so i am concerned as to how i am going to go ahead and implement independent audits!

[beautiophile]

 

 

It's tricky, there are only 2 adequate internal auditors with BRC knowledge on my site, me and another who has no time for anything technical etc. so i am concerned as to how i am going to go ahead and implement independent audits!

My suggestions are

- let your other guy not involve in HACCP planning, QC routine works, overall document controlling, and auditing. Yes. He shouldn't implement internal audits at all, but he can act as an observer.

- you conduct audits on everything except for Clause 2, 3.1, 3.2, 3.4 and QC duties.

- appoint that guy to assess you against requirements for QC, SOPs and Clauses you haven't covered.

- clarify such scheme in the audit programme.

And I'm afraid that you will likely get a NC of not being trained in auditing. A short course (2-3 days) of ISO-19011 for you two maybe good enough.

[zoelawton]

My suggestions are

- let your other guy not involve in HACCP planning, QC routine works, overall document controlling, and auditing. Yes. He shouldn't implement internal audits at all, but he can act as an observer.

- you conduct audits on everything except for Clause 2, 3.1, 3.2, 3.4 and QC duties.

- appoint that guy to assess you against requirements for QC, SOPs and Clauses you haven't covered.

- clarify such scheme in the audit programme.

And I'm afraid that you will likely get a NC of not being trained in auditing. A short course (2-3 days) of ISO-19011 for you two maybe good enough.

 

I ran through this with the tech guy yesterday to ensure we had a plan in place that created true independence. He has been trained/qualified for years and i completed my qualifications last week so all is good! thanks for the suggestions!  

[ally1822]

How do you determine the frequency of auditing . I was audited a couple of days ago and he wanted me to show when I audited how do I come to determining when I did them . I have a schedule which I follow . But on the back of this my predecessors only review it annually or if changes happened . I know we have to risk assess it by low , medium to high and do a scoring . Does anyone have a scoring mythology. I can use like
Low is 1-5 medium 6-10 and high 11-15


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