3 replies to this topic

[SpursGirl]

Hi all, It's been a long time since I visited the forum and hope everyone is staying safe and well. I have a question around cooking of seafood. I work for a company manufacturing ready to cook meals - these consist of a raw protein, some raw vegetables and cooked sauces and starches. As these are RTC we complete cooking validations to create the safe handling instructions for consumers for home cooking but this is where I am having some issues with my R&D team. For our seafood items, which utilize raw shrimp or raw fish, there is a debate on what temperature we should be targeting for the consumer cook. The FDA guidance for safe cook temp on seafood is 145F however for listeria we should be hitting 165F. I require all cooking instructions to hit a 165F core temp but my R&D team are insistent that 145F is acceptable for seafood and I'm having a hard time explaining why I need 165F. I've explained that the 165F is for listeria and other pathogens but I keep coming back to but why does the FDA say 145F is acceptable on seafood if 165F is needed for a pathogen kill. Does raw seafood NOT have the risk of pathogens?? I know that's not true so Im struggling how to explain this to my colleagues who want to stay at 145F for 'eating quality' of seafood. I have explained that the products contain items other than seafood and that we need to hit lethality temp for those items but it still comes back to but why is 145F safe for seafood but not other items. Any advice on how to address this would be welcome.

[SQFconsultant]

FDA says as a suggestion that 145 is a great temp for cooking finfish was it provides a flaky consistency, opaque flesh, and allows for moisture content, but it is not for all seafood, shellfish, etc.

[Scampi]

The internal temperature for Pork is also 145........back in the day hogs used to suffer form Trichinosis and the only way to kill that parasite was to cook the pork beyond 180

 

Lobster is 140and 

Halibut 120

 

Why are you targeting lethality for listeria in your finished good (fish excluded)  

 

AND you cannot count on the general population to cook it properly so you're still in a recall situation

[Charles.C]

Hi all,

 

It's been a long time since I visited the forum and hope everyone is staying safe and well.

 

I have a question around cooking of seafood. I work for a company manufacturing ready to cook meals - these consist of a raw protein, some raw vegetables and cooked sauces and starches. As these are RTC we complete cooking validations to create the safe handling instructions for consumers for home cooking but this is where I am having some issues with my R&D team.

 

For our seafood items, which utilize raw shrimp or raw fish, there is a debate on what temperature we should be targeting for the consumer cook. The FDA guidance for safe cook temp on seafood is 145F however for listeria we should be hitting 165F. I require all cooking instructions to hit a 165F core temp but my R&D team are insistent that 145F is acceptable for seafood and I'm having a hard time explaining why I need 165F. I've explained that the 165F is for listeria and other pathogens but I keep coming back to but why does the FDA say 145F is acceptable on seafood if 165F is needed for a pathogen kill. Does raw seafood NOT have the risk of pathogens?? I know that's not true so Im struggling how to explain this to my colleagues who want to stay at 145F for 'eating quality' of seafood. I have explained that the products contain items other than seafood and that we need to hit lethality temp for those items but it still comes back to but why is 145F safe for seafood but not other items. Any advice on how to address this would be welcome.

Time is also relevant.

 

The confusion may derive from the fact that 145degF/15sec is probably based on Salmonella target (noted in FDA Food Code 2017/fish).

 

Source of 165degF (ca.74degC) unclear. Sometimes appears as an uplifted/instantaneous value of the 6D/L.mono associated 70degC-2min.

 

Another possible factor  -         

3-401.12  Microwave Cooking.
The rapid increase in food temperature resulting from microwave heating does not
provide the same cumulative time and temperature relationship necessary for the
destruction of microorganisms as do conventional cooking methods.  In order to achieve
comparable lethality, the food must attain a temperature of 74 o C (165 o F) in all parts of
the food.  Since cold spots may exist in food cooking in a microwave oven, it is critical to
measure the food temperature at multiple sites when the food is removed from the oven
and then allow the food to stand covered for two minutes post microwave heating to
allow thermal equalization and exposure.  Although some microwave ovens are
designed and engineered to deliver energy more evenly to the food than others, the
important factor is to measure and ensure that the final temperature reaches 74 o C
(165 o F) throughout the food.

(Food Code 2017)

 

And another possible resolution -

 

 FDA cooking times.PNG   69.74KB   2 downloads

(old extract)

 

This is a quite complex topic.