Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

Same product but different customer labeling, should we keep the same lot number?


  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

Cthulhu

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 55 posts
  • 6 thanks
16
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United States
  • Interests:Video Games, Sci-fi, Geology, Rockhounding, Museums, Meteorology, Natural Disasters, Cthulhu Mythos, Board games, Card games.

Posted 03 August 2021 - 04:33 PM

Hello, we currently run our biggest selling product for a 2-3 week period with the same lot number since the lot numbers for the main ingredients do not change very often. We sometimes dip out of the customer's packaging and run our private label during the packaging process and then go back to the customer's packaging. They keep the same lot number for private label and the customers product. I mentioned I think we'd need to change lot numbers but looking through previous threads I can't find anything concrete. They said they shouldn't have to change lot numbers because it is the exact same base product. I think being a different packaging/customer we should change the lot number. Thoughts?

 

 


Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

 

https://www.facebook...29416493974293/

https://www.instagra...m/area51miners/


SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 3,747 posts
  • 943 thanks
829
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:American Patriot
    WWG1WGA
    Never give up, never give in - always win!
    Martha's Vineyard Island, Massachusetts

Posted 03 August 2021 - 04:44 PM

You should be changing the lot number.


Kind regards,
Glenn Oster
 
GOC BUSINESS GROUP | SQF System Development, Implementation & Certification Consultants
Internal Auditor Training - eConsultant Retainer Subscriptions - Pre & Post SQF-GAP Audits - Consultant Training
Visit us @ http://www.GlennOster.com  or call us @ 772.646.4115 US-EST 8am-4pm Anyday except Thursday
 
 

Scampi

    Fellow

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 3,742 posts
  • 1009 thanks
648
Excellent

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 03 August 2021 - 04:57 PM

Change them----they ARE a different lot-------would you use the same lot # for different sizes of the same product? No, because maybe you have different customers, maybe different packaging supplier

 

And while you're at it, reduce the size of your lots to weekly

 

This is about protecting the company--------------huge lots = huge recalls 

 

The way you're doing things, you would HAVE to recall the entire 2-3 lot as you'd have no way to know (reliably) what units were produced when


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


YNA QA

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 66 posts
  • 9 thanks
19
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Kentucky
  • Interests:Crochet, Reading, Animals, Football

Posted 03 August 2021 - 04:59 PM

Honestly, since it's a different label, I wouldn't think it necessary to change the lots. 

 

As long as the two labels are vastly different, and listed under different item codes, and you keep track of the exact number of cases that you run of each, then there should be no issue. 

 

Our lot codes are based on our mixing of the product first, and then packaging of the product second.  So if we have one 2000LB tote with Lot Code 20AB, for instance, and we run it into two different packages, that lot is STILL 20AB, and would need to be coded as such on both packages (personally I think it's sort of necessary for traceability purposes).  Why create chances for error, when there isn't a need for it?



Cthulhu

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 55 posts
  • 6 thanks
16
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United States
  • Interests:Video Games, Sci-fi, Geology, Rockhounding, Museums, Meteorology, Natural Disasters, Cthulhu Mythos, Board games, Card games.

Posted 03 August 2021 - 05:43 PM

Change them----they ARE a different lot-------would you use the same lot # for different sizes of the same product? No, because maybe you have different customers, maybe different packaging supplier

 

And while you're at it, reduce the size of your lots to weekly

 

This is about protecting the company--------------huge lots = huge recalls 

 

The way you're doing things, you would HAVE to recall the entire 2-3 lot as you'd have no way to know (reliably) what units were produced when

 

We currently run our big customer in the same size bags so typically the lot number is always the same size. I've been trying to convince them to use smaller lots since I started here earlier this spring, but they don't want too because of the increase cost of micro testing every lot (I've explained the cost of one big recall will be way more than micro could ever be).

 

Since I recently created paperwork to be used here (before they had nearly 0 paperwork) they now have daily batch sheets and now know how much is actually being made daily so I was trying to get them to use a Julian date lot number daily. I was thinking a lot code like batch number and Julian date (example, today august 21st, 2021 lot code would be 035821421). In this case we would only do micro on the batch lot number 0358 and use the Julian date for tighter traceability of any issues other than micro. If they would get on board for smaller lots and doing more micro testing the lot size wouldn't be an issue.

 

But they also don't agree with the changing of the lot for different customers/packaging so I have no idea why I'm here other than to create SOPs and paperwork for them to try to get to SQF certification. I feel like I bang my head against the wall constantly and everyone watches ha!


Edited by QAFSerik, 03 August 2021 - 05:48 PM.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

 

https://www.facebook...29416493974293/

https://www.instagra...m/area51miners/


Thanked by 2 Members:

Ryan M.

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,250 posts
  • 449 thanks
251
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birmingham, AL
  • Interests:Reading, crosswords, passionate discussions, laughing at US politics.

Posted 03 August 2021 - 06:45 PM

Not necessary.  So long as you can trace through your system you are fine with it.

 

FYI to all the others posting...we run one "lot code" on all products for a given production day.  Differentiation is by size and label line number and timestamp.  This is pretty common for producers with significant volume.  



Scampi

    Fellow

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 3,742 posts
  • 1009 thanks
648
Excellent

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 03 August 2021 - 07:30 PM

A lot code is supposed to mean something, represent something, and allow you to get back that something

 

Now, product A has ingredients 1,2 and 3. ALWAYS.  It is always run on machine Y-----------so the LOT code for that product could be A123Y, but WHEN did you make it?  Ah, now you need a batch code of some description

 

So maybe now you're lot is A123Y080321, you've now got a lot code that is meaningful and worth using

 

Everywhere I have been, it also included a TIME STAMP inkjet printers are not that expensive and you can get ink for varying surface as well as direct food contact

 

Show me how you can perform a traceability exercise for 1 day of production without a batch record, when the same lot # is used over multiple weeks w/o having to recall it all?  


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


Thanked by 1 Member:

kingstudruler1

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 200 posts
  • 73 thanks
38
Excellent

  • United States
    United States

Posted 04 August 2021 - 10:07 PM

We currently run our big customer in the same size bags so typically the lot number is always the same size. I've been trying to convince them to use smaller lots since I started here earlier this spring, but they don't want too because of the increase cost of micro testing every lot (I've explained the cost of one big recall will be way more than micro could ever be).

 

Since I recently created paperwork to be used here (before they had nearly 0 paperwork) they now have daily batch sheets and now know how much is actually being made daily so I was trying to get them to use a Julian date lot number daily. I was thinking a lot code like batch number and Julian date (example, today august 21st, 2021 lot code would be 035821421). In this case we would only do micro on the batch lot number 0358 and use the Julian date for tighter traceability of any issues other than micro. If they would get on board for smaller lots and doing more micro testing the lot size wouldn't be an issue.

 

But they also don't agree with the changing of the lot for different customers/packaging so I have no idea why I'm here other than to create SOPs and paperwork for them to try to get to SQF certification. I feel like I bang my head against the wall constantly and everyone watches ha!

 

here is my opnion:

 

1.  I agree that running a giant lot code for the purposes of reducing testing doesnt make sense to me.  I'm not sure I understand their logic / position.  

2.   i don't necessarily agree that you have to change lot numbers for each label.    For instance, a dairy may produces several products in several diffferent sizes under several different labels / co-packs.   They probably use the same best by date / lot code for everything.   The SKU/barcode and Best By date is still easily traced.  its not that uncommon.  (they would obviously change the lot every day though).  



Ryan M.

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,250 posts
  • 449 thanks
251
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birmingham, AL
  • Interests:Reading, crosswords, passionate discussions, laughing at US politics.

Posted 05 August 2021 - 01:59 PM

There are no specific rules when it comes to this.  Provided you have full traceability at the end of the day it comes down to how much your company is willing to stomach in a potential recall for a given lot.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users