12 replies to this topic

[NaiaCM]

Hello every one, I would like to know what do you recommend for cleaning between batches of same products in a beverages industry, basically carbonated beverages, sparkling flavored  waters, I am struggling with my  Operations team, for the cleaning, they are requesting me either do not clean or minimize the cleaning between batches of the same product. For a better picture, we are having the blend, (already pasteurized, no allergen) in the chilling/carbonation tank for several hours, the request is once we empty this tank, what can we do for minimize the cleaning before start filling with the new pasteurized batch. My sense tells me we need to clean but I will need to show them some, since they have some "advises" on minimize procedures, so it will be great to know how the industry does in a regular basis. Thanks, Naia 

[kingstudruler1]

From a food safety and maybe a traceability standpoint it might be best to do a cleaning in-between batches.  

 

However, what is the risk?    if there is little to no risk in refilling the tank with a new batch, why spend resources.  I was working with a small / med company and they saved nearly a $1,000,000 / year by rationalizing their cleaning frequency.   However, it really depends on the operation.  

 

I guess this is  my recommendation to anyone - clean based on regulation and risk.   Don't just pull frequencies out of the air this may be inadequate or overkill.   

[NaiaCM]

i have the open mind to this, however, i am not sure how to evaluate the risk, maybe base on the time that the product stays on the tank?, i am doing micro on the finish good, but results are ready 24-48 hours later, i cannot use that as resource. 

there is not allergens involved, if is the same flavor, we are not concerning on that either, so i gest my biggest concern is if we have any micro issues on the batch, 

 

thanks so much  

[johnmcip]

This is a tough one. I would guess your risk assessment should account for shelf life, storage conditions of the tank, how long that tank is out of those storage conditions for emptying and refilling, product turnover on the tank level, propensity for micro growth under ordinary conditions. Not sure how you would put all those together.

If you do reduce cleaning frequency you need to ensure its tracked. You're current system is easy to implement and monitor because the flow is always "I just emptied this tank, I better clean it". Make sure you have the ability to track refill cycles on the tanks and a way to enforce cleaning after a certain amount of cycles so that things can't slip through the cracks and get grimy.

[PQAManager]

I've worked in a couple of carbonated drink factories and they do chemical cleaning every 72 hours, but they ran a 24/7 shift.  When they did their swabs to test for micros...they could possibly  be reduced to having to clean every 48 hours, 24 hours...  In another plant they only run one shift and they would use Quat weekly.  Both companies had risk assessments to back them up.  The last company went off that the concentrate has a pH under 4.1, therefore the acidity would not promote bacterial growth.  Both would just rinse with water between batches.  Hope this helps

[kingstudruler1]

i have the open mind to this, however, i am not sure how to evaluate the risk, maybe base on the time that the product stays on the tank?, i am doing micro on the finish good, but results are ready 24-48 hours later, i cannot use that as resource. 

there is not allergens involved, if is the same flavor, we are not concerning on that either, so i gest my biggest concern is if we have any micro issues on the batch, 

 

thanks so much  

as i recall even in a fluid milk plant we would not clean inbetween batches into a pasteurized tank.   the tanks were just cleaned every 24 hours. 

 

i am not super  familiar with your products.   What is it about going back into the tank that concerns you?   how long does it take to empty the tank?  do you clean the all tanks, lines, fillers, etc after each batch as well (why or why not)?   do you use sterilizing filters (why or why not)?  

 

could you just do a simple test?    perhaps if you are going back into a tank with a smaller batch, don't wash, grab hourly samples of second batch.  place entire second batch on hold until micro tests come back and possibly hold for an extended time and test again to ensure proper micro levels.   repeat this test several times until you are confident that it is acceptable or conclude that a wash is needed each batch with any adverse finding.  these tests may need to be product specific depending on carbonation, ph, etc.

 

maybe as john stated, it might be easier to keep track of washes if you stick to cleaning every time something is used.   If no one has the expertise on site, you may want to find a beverage expert to consult.   

[Jayce]

if you have a pilot scale R&D system maybe you could test out find the possible ways to keep you risk micro growth rate.  

One of my experience with beverage company, they do hot water rinsing between the batches of same product in 24 hour shift. 

[Charles.C]

Hello every one, 

I would like to know what do you recommend for cleaning  between batches of same products  in a beverages industry, basically carbonated beverages, sparkling flavored  waters, I am struggling with my  Operations team, for the cleaning, they are requesting me either do not clean or minimize the cleaning between batches of the same product. 

for give a better picture, we are having the blend,  (already pasteurized, no allergen) in the chilling/carbonation tank for several hours, the request is once we empty this tank, what can we do for minimize the cleaning before start filling with the new pasteurized batch. My sense    tells me we need to clean but I will need to show them some, since they have some "advises" on minimize procedures, so it will be great to know how the industry does in a regular basis  

 

thanks 

 

Naia 

 

Hi Naia,

 

Not my area at all but yr query looks so "basic" that an Industry "best practice" (or a recommended risk assessment methodology) surely exists (somewhere) as implied in Post 5.

 

One thing almost guaranteed is that you need some data since the (extreme) suggestion of no cleaning obviously has an unknown but potentially catastrophic risk  for cross-contamination.

 

Detergent/sanitizer suppliers are one obvious (free) info. possibility.

[Ryan M.]

Put together a plan and a process to make small changes, track the changes, and collect test and data.  For example, if you currently wash between each batch select a batch where you do not wash after, instead do a water flush, and then conduct surface swabs on equipment or rinse water sample collection for micro testing.  If you can, put the next batch on hold until the micro comes back and is within spec.  If water sample is in spec on micro then expand the test and do it with three batches with water rinses in between.  If that clears, then extend again.

 

If you find the water rinsing between the batches is sufficient then apply the same methodology to a batch without rinsing between the first and second batch.

 

Determine what testing you need to do; testing that would impact the quality and shelf-life of the product.  Could be specific micro testing, chemical testing (pH, acidity), physical testing (sensory evaluation).

 

This will take time and persistence, but if you can prove this out it is a good conservative way to prove you don't have to wash between batches, or perhaps you find you have to wash after X number of batches.

[NaiaCM]

Thanks so much to all, I will conduct some micro testing before wash, so I can collect some data and have a decision based on that. My times now are not standard since we are getting set up our chiller to get 33 F before carbonation start,  so I had product on the tanks for 2 hour or for more that 24. I think my best move is conduct some test and wait until I have all equipment  running on time, I expect to have product on the tanks only for 5-6 hours only, but I have them for more than 24, i am thinking the full clean will be necessary. 

 

thanks

 

Naia   

[Charles.C]

Thanks so much to all, I will conduct some micro testing before wash, so I can collect some data and have a decision based on that. My times now are not standard since we are getting set up our chiller to get 33 F before carbonation start,  so I had product on the tanks for 2 hour or for more that 24. I think my best move is conduct some test and wait until I have all equipment  running on time, I expect to have product on the tanks only for 5-6 hours only, but I have them for more than 24, i am thinking the full clean will be necessary. 

 

thanks

 

Naia   

 

Hi Naia,

 

Any detectable problems may likely depend on the details, eg -

 

https://www.bcnlabs.com/beverages

[lorlandini]

This is a very late response to this topic.

 

To me the key is the pasteurization step and tank sanitation step.   If you achieve your required temperature and hold time during pasteurization, your product is biologically stable.  Testing will confirm.    If your sanitation process is robust and testing indicates as such, you should not have to clean between each batch of same flavor.

 

 

[mlong32]

This is a very late response to this topic.

 

To me the key is the pasteurization step and tank sanitation step.   If you achieve your required temperature and hold time during pasteurization, your product is biologically stable.  Testing will confirm.    If your sanitation process is robust and testing indicates as such, you should not have to clean between each batch of same flavor.

 

As I am now even a year later than this comment I still hope to provide some insight for someone who may come along searching for this issue and reading the replies. 

 

I've worked for both of the two major soda bottling facilities in the US and neither would perform rinses on batching equipment, tanks, or production lines if we were going from one product to the same product or even if we were going from a base product to a flavored same base product. The thought is that there is little to no risk with contamination since sanitary methods are validated to be good for about 24 hours following a hot detergent rinse and there's little difference between having 1 batch that's 1000 gallons of syrup vs 2 batches of the same product that are both 500 gallons of syrup. Its considered a "continuous batch/manufacturing"