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Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 02:16 PM

Hi all,

 

Please I need your input on this. We purchased magnets to be used to fulfill one of our prerequisite programs. I am wondering what documents I need to get from the supplier of the magnet. I requested for calibration certificate and initial strength of the magnet. They can not provide these two but only certificate of conformity that says the magnet meet the standard and specification of MMPA-0100-00. The certificate provided does not mention the type of magnet either. They just told us verbally that it is a rare earth magnet. The magnets were purchased from Bunting. Imo, the certificate of conformity is not enough. But I don't know what to request for as they claimed no customer has ever requested for calibration certificate from them.

 

Thanks!



Scampi

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 02:30 PM

You're asking for something that cannot exist

Calibrate it to what?  Magnetic north?

 

When scales are calibrated, they are calibrated against a known certified weight(s)---no such thing exists for a magnet

 

You're job now is to validate the magnet in your facility in your process(s)   then, and only then will you be able to introduce it into your program 

 

May I ask what exactly do you expect this magnet to do for you?  


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mlong32

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 02:43 PM

Purchase a Gaussmeter and check each magnet for magnetic field strength once a month to ensure they have not lost any magnetism. This is our current procedure for our in line mag traps (carbonated beverage manufacturer). We have one immediately prior to the filler, one after the batch tanks before product reaches the strainer, and one attached to our water system. 



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Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 02:47 PM

You're asking for something that cannot exist

Calibrate it to what?  Magnetic north?

 

When scales are calibrated, they are calibrated against a known certified weight(s)---no such thing exists for a magnet

 

You're job now is to validate the magnet in your facility in your process(s)   then, and only then will you be able to introduce it into your program 

 

May I ask what exactly do you expect this magnet to do for you?  

Thanks for your response!

 

We want to ensure our food items are free from metal fragments because we chop and dice some of our ingredients. It will be a process control. We have metal detector as a CCP.



Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 02:51 PM

Purchase a Gaussmeter and check each magnet for magnetic field strength once a month to ensure they have not lost any magnetism. This is our current procedure for our in line mag traps (carbonated beverage manufacturer). We have one immediately prior to the filler, one after the batch tanks before product reaches the strainer, and one attached to our water system. 

Thanks!

We have purchased a Gaussmeter. Can you please share with me how you check the strength. My results are not consistent. Some parts of the magnets are below 10000G and some are above.



mlong32

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 03:11 PM

Thanks!

We have purchased a Gaussmeter. Can you please share with me how you check the strength. My results are not consistent. Some parts of the magnets are below 10000G and some are above.

 

We have a Peak Hold Style Button Gaussmeter so the typical procedure is to hold the measuring probe away from any metal or magnets in order to calibrate it to 0. From there we use a green film to determine the spaces between the magnets (our mag traps are actually stacks of small magnets instead of one solid magnet) and finding the greatest strength with the peak hold feature. Log the data for the corresponding magnet and make note of any visual damage or defects if necessary. Some parts will range in magnetism, only worry about the peak value because that's the most amount of "work" the magnet is capable of. 



kingstudruler1

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 03:43 PM

you could also use a pull strenght tester.   i think bunting makes one.   

I bought is and then remember that gauss meter would be way better.   the pull strength testers seem a little hockey to me.   But if bunting rates the magnets in LBS/ozs a gauss meter would only help determine degradation over time.  

 

I dont think you care so much as to the type of magnet but the strength and the poles.   a simple TDS should suffice.   

 

There is a white paper on magnet validation.   I purchased it a few years ago and cant find it.   It goes through all of the specifics of strenghs, poles distance form product etc.    just sticking a magnet into a system doesn't necessarily mean its effective.   Installation matters.   


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Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 07:05 PM

We have a Peak Hold Style Button Gaussmeter so the typical procedure is to hold the measuring probe away from any metal or magnets in order to calibrate it to 0. From there we use a green film to determine the spaces between the magnets (our mag traps are actually stacks of small magnets instead of one solid magnet) and finding the greatest strength with the peak hold feature. Log the data for the corresponding magnet and make note of any visual damage or defects if necessary. Some parts will range in magnetism, only worry about the peak value because that's the most amount of "work" the magnet is capable of. 

This is really helpful. Ours are small magnets too. One thing to clarify please. You make sure the probe is away from any metal or magnet to calibrate the Gaussmeter to zero but the probe has to touch the magnet to measure the strength, right.



Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 07:13 PM

you could also use a pull strenght tester.   i think bunting makes one.   

I bought is and then remember that gauss meter would be way better.   the pull strength testers seem a little hockey to me.   But if bunting rates the magnets in LBS/ozs a gauss meter would only help determine degradation over time.  

 

I dont think you care so much as to the type of magnet but the strength and the poles.   a simple TDS should suffice.   

 

There is a white paper on magnet validation.   I purchased it a few years ago and cant find it.   It goes through all of the specifics of strenghs, poles distance form product etc.    just sticking a magnet into a system doesn't necessarily mean its effective.   Installation matters.   

Thanks for reminding me about TDS. I have read a lot about pull strength tester and Gaussmeter. I think Gaussmeter will do a better job for me.



TylerJones

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 07:26 PM

Omoware- on this you going to want to record your strengths you pulled at to create a baseline and di the pull test on a defined frequency, Once you get a good amount of data you can decide on when a magnet will need to be be replaced, 10-20-50% loss in pull strength. In all my years of audits and companies employed at they were all different percentages and auditors didn't mind. Its based on your risk and your product / inputs. Hope that helps point you in a direction once you get some data from your magnets. 


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mlong32

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 07:49 PM

This is really helpful. Ours are small magnets too. One thing to clarify please. You make sure the probe is away from any metal or magnet to calibrate the Gaussmeter to zero but the probe has to touch the magnet to measure the strength, right.

Correct...direct contact with the magnet to measure the magnetic field strength. I personally slowly run the probe up the length of the column to hit the entire thing and get the highest reading



Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 08:14 PM

Omoware- on this you going to want to record your strengths you pulled at to create a baseline and di the pull test on a defined frequency, Once you get a good amount of data you can decide on when a magnet will need to be be replaced, 10-20-50% loss in pull strength. In all my years of audits and companies employed at they were all different percentages and auditors didn't mind. Its based on your risk and your product / inputs. Hope that helps point you in a direction once you get some data from your magnets. 

Thanks!



Omoware

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 08:15 PM

Correct...direct contact with the magnet to measure the magnetic field strength. I personally slowly run the probe up the length of the column to hit the entire thing and get the highest reading

Perfect, thanks!



Charles.C

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 10:23 PM

Hi all,

 

Please I need your input on this. We purchased magnets to be used to fulfill one of our prerequisite programs. I am wondering what documents I need to get from the supplier of the magnet. I requested for calibration certificate and initial strength of the magnet. They can not provide these two but only certificate of conformity that says the magnet meet the standard and specification of MMPA-0100-00. The certificate provided does not mention the type of magnet either. They just told us verbally that it is a rare earth magnet. The magnets were purchased from Bunting. Imo, the certificate of conformity is not enough. But I don't know what to request for as they claimed no customer has ever requested for calibration certificate from them.

 

Thanks!

Hi Omoware,

 

^^^(red) - This is why people ask for CoAs.

 

I suggest you try reading some of the older threads here. This is a well-documented subject.

 

PS - how can anyone declare some item meets a fixed numerical standard without performing a measurement ?

 

Does the  CoC not state that a minimum Gauss level is achieved? (ie what is specification MMPA-0100-00 ?)

 

PPS - actually this is IMEX rather similar to purchasing metal detectors, it is often surprisingly difficult to locate a specific declaration as to what the sensitivity (ie limit of detection) actually is.

 

P3S - for starters, can try this thread -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ry/#entry149821


Edited by Charles.C, 17 November 2021 - 12:15 AM.
edited

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Omoware

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Posted 17 November 2021 - 07:24 PM

Hi Omoware,

 

^^^(red) - This is why people ask for CoAs.

 

I suggest you try reading some of the older threads here. This is a well-documented subject.

 

PS - how can anyone declare some item meets a fixed numerical standard without performing a measurement ?

 

Does the  CoC not state that a minimum Gauss level is achieved? (ie what is specification MMPA-0100-00 ?)

 

PPS - actually this is IMEX rather similar to purchasing metal detectors, it is often surprisingly difficult to locate a specific declaration as to what the sensitivity (ie limit of detection) actually is.

 

P3S - for starters, can try this thread -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ry/#entry149821

 

Thanks for sending the link.
^^^(green)-exactly my thought

^^^(blue)-It does not state anything about the strength of the magnet.

 

Thanks!





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