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Is a metal detector considered a process step?


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lisiegirl

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 03:52 PM

Hello Everyone!

 

I am new to the Food Packaging Industry and trying to learn as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, my predecessor is no longer with us and neither is 75% of the prior HACCP Team for me to ask questions. This is where you come in to help. :)

 

I have attached a copy of the HACCP Process Flow (we make rigid plastic packaging for food products - we do not fill them). Anyway, they have "screen packs, vision systems and in-line metal detectors" listed as a process step. I do not agree with this, but again, I could be wrong. What are your thoughts?

 

We have no CCP's identified and list metal detectors as an oPRP. Curious to see how everyone else would handle this. Should I remove that "step" from the process flow? Thanks.

 



lisiegirl

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 03:53 PM

Oops, didn't upload the attachment correctly. Hopefully, this worked.

Attached Files



Christopher Martinez

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:16 PM

in my facility we have no CCP's as well and we also have metal detectors/ magnets. you just have to identify why it wouldn't be a 

CCP in your facility. 

 

Were a plastic bottle manufacturing company for a bit of my background. 

 

its only considered a CCP if its in contact with any kind of food and as i previously stated we ONLY manufacture plastic bottles. we do not fill them, we just manufacture them and send them off, But you still have to have a processes flow showing and describing the steps and why they are not a CCP.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

 

 

 

(edit) i just saw you also use blow molds! We also use blow molds! 


Edited by Christopher Martinez, 23 March 2022 - 06:19 PM.


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lisiegirl

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:27 PM

in my facility we have no CCP's as well and we also have metal detectors/ magnets. you just have to identify why it wouldn't be a 

CCP in your facility. 

 

Were a plastic bottle manufacturing company for a bit of my background. 

 

its only considered a CCP if its in contact with any kind of food and as i previously stated we ONLY manufacture plastic bottles. we do not fill them, we just manufacture them and send them off, But you still have to have a processes flow showing and describing the steps and why they are not a CCP.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

 

 

 

(edit) i just saw you also use blow molds! We also use blow molds! 

 

Chris, thanks and yes, we just blow bottles. I understand that the metal detector is not a CCP - I agree with that, but should it be on the process flow? Do you have it on your process flow? It seems like it should go from blow bottles to pack and ship, not include the other stuff. Your thoughts?



Christopher Martinez

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:43 PM

Chris, thanks and yes, we just blow bottles. I understand that the metal detector is not a CCP - I agree with that, but should it be on the process flow? Do you have it on your process flow? It seems like it should go from blow bottles to pack and ship, not include the other stuff. Your thoughts?

yes it should be included because its part of the process that ensures its safe for food use! think of it this way if it touches the material or ensures the quality of the material then its a process step.  I am very fortunate i came into a company who has had 3 prefect scored audits and my audit yesterday was a 99 as well (maintenance team was slacking on reports :angry2: ) I also was given the great opportunity to train with director of business who set everything up  himself and his advice for me was if the material runs through it then its considered a process step. Also, be careful with adding unnecessary processing steps as these can come back at you in a negative way during your audit as my trainer said don't give the auditor extra chances to take points off

 

ide share our process flow but i don't know how to attach files on here!


Edited by Christopher Martinez, 23 March 2022 - 06:49 PM.


Scampi

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:52 PM

Your process flow should include ALL steps (incoming raw materials/ each processing step / pack / label/ waste flow)

 

The entire point of a process flow is to see where hazards may be introduced 

 

What does your hazard analysis look like?   


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


lisiegirl

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:54 PM

yes it should be included because its part of the process that ensures its safe for food use! think of it this way if it touches the material or ensures the quality of the material then its a process step.  I am very fortunate i came into a company who has had 3 prefect scored audits and my audit yesterday was a 99 as well (maintenance team was slacking on reports :angry2: ) I also was given the great opportunity to train with director of business who set everything up  himself and his advice for me was if the material runs through it then its considered a process step. Also, be careful with adding unnecessary processing steps as these can come back at you in a negative way during your audit as my trainer said don't give the auditor extra chances to take points off

 

ide share our process flow but i don't know how to attach files on here!

 

 

Go to quote and then click on post more replies and it will give you an option to "choose file" and then "attach this file". Did you have a chance to review the PFD I attached to my original post? Coming from someone with perfect audit scores, I would really value your opinion. Does it look correct?



lisiegirl

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:56 PM

Your process flow should include ALL steps (incoming raw materials/ each processing step / pack / label/ waste flow)

 

The entire point of a process flow is to see where hazards may be introduced 

 

What does your hazard analysis look like?   

 

 

I attached a copy of our PFD in my earlier post. As for hazards, we don't have any critical hazards identified.



Christopher Martinez

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 06:57 PM

Yes exactly you have the right idea! just think about where the material will potentially pass through such as receiving or when it is waste.

 

Hope this sample can help you. 


Edited by Christopher Martinez, 23 March 2022 - 07:00 PM.


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Christopher Martinez

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 07:00 PM

Yes exactly you have the right idea! just think about where the material will potentially pass through such as receiving or when it is waste.

 

Hope this sample can help you. 

Attached Files


Edited by Christopher Martinez, 23 March 2022 - 07:01 PM.


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lisiegirl

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 07:03 PM

 

Yes exactly you have the right idea! just think about where the material will potentially pass through such as receiving or when it is waste.

 

Hope this sample can help you. 

 

 

You're the best!! Seriously, thank you so much! You are the first person to actually help me on here and I so appreciate it!!



Christopher Martinez

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 07:12 PM

You're the best!! Seriously, thank you so much! You are the first person to actually help me on here and I so appreciate it!!

I'm also a brand new SQF practitioner (7 months now) so i know what your going through! this site is full of great information sometimes you just have to really dig through the forums to find what your looking for! I'm always happy to help so don't hesitate to reach out to exchange ideas or for some help!



Rick Reyes

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 07:14 PM

Scampi is absolutely correct, every process step needs to be included in your flow chart so that you can do a proper Risk Assessment, if a process step is missing then you run the real risk of not identifying a serious threat that could lead to big problems down the road. In this case the risk is not worth the simplicity.



kingstudruler1

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 07:39 PM

They should be included.   Also, i would separate them out (3 boxes instead of the one you currently have) as the hazards / risk assessment  could be different for each process.   


Edited by kingstudruler1, 23 March 2022 - 07:40 PM.

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Charles.C

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Posted 24 March 2022 - 11:56 PM

Hello Everyone!

 

I am new to the Food Packaging Industry and trying to learn as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, my predecessor is no longer with us and neither is 75% of the prior HACCP Team for me to ask questions. This is where you come in to help. :)

 

I have attached a copy of the HACCP Process Flow (we make rigid plastic packaging for food products - we do not fill them). Anyway, they have "screen packs, vision systems and in-line metal detectors" listed as a process step. I do not agree with this, but again, I could be wrong. What are your thoughts?

 

We have no CCP's identified and list metal detectors as an oPRP. Curious to see how everyone else would handle this. Should I remove that "step" from the process flow? Thanks.

Hi Lisiegirl,

 

Strangely, no-one has asked what Standard you are seeking certification to ?

 

As per post 6, it would be useful if you uploaded yr hazard analysis. I am curious how your metal detector oprp was justified ? (OPRP afaik is, strictly,  limited to ISO-haccp)

 

I suggest you have a look at some of the haccp plans at this location to maybe get a clearer idea of the haccp concept -

 

https://www.iopp.org...fm?pageid=2267 


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


lisiegirl

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Posted 25 March 2022 - 12:21 PM

Hi Lisiegirl,

 

Strangely, no-one has asked what Standard you are seeking certification to ?

 

As per post 6, it would be useful if you uploaded yr hazard analysis. I am curious how your metal detector oprp was justified ? (OPRP afaik is, strictly,  limited to ISO-haccp)

 

I suggest you have a look at some of the haccp plans at this location to maybe get a clearer idea of the haccp concept -

 

https://www.iopp.org...fm?pageid=2267 

 

Hi Charles,

 

We are already certified against FSSC 22000, but the HACCP I inherited is terrible. There is no risk assessment matrix associated with the decisions the prior team made. When the auditor asked the one remaining HACCP Team member how they quantified risk for each hazard, his response was, "I have no idea". So, I am trying to redo the entire thing and make sure it makes sense. The Process Flow Diagram calls out the metal detector as an oPRP, but that's it. It isn't mentioned anywhere else in the HACCP Plan, no is there any rational as to why it is deemed an oPRP. I originally started this thread because I was unsure if the metal detector would be considered a "process step", but from what I am seeing, the response is yes. 



Charles.C

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Posted 26 March 2022 - 05:05 AM

Hi Charles,

 

We are already certified against FSSC 22000, but the HACCP I inherited is terrible. There is no risk assessment matrix associated with the decisions the prior team made. When the auditor asked the one remaining HACCP Team member how they quantified risk for each hazard, his response was, "I have no idea". So, I am trying to redo the entire thing and make sure it makes sense. The Process Flow Diagram calls out the metal detector as an oPRP, but that's it. It isn't mentioned anywhere else in the HACCP Plan, no is there any rational as to why it is deemed an oPRP. I originally started this thread because I was unsure if the metal detector would be considered a "process step", but from what I am seeing, the response is yes. 

Hi Lisiegirl,

 

Thanks for the update. Frankly I'm rather amazed as to how certification was achieved in the initial audit.

 

Based on previous Food haccp threads here for GFSI recognised (and traditional) standards, IMO the majority of single metal detectors (MDs) are designated as CCPs although some cases of oprp and PRP do exist. (I think MDs are rather rare at the end of Packaging Production Lines).

 

You probably know already that there is a current, "official" freely downloadable basic guideline text to fssc22000 which is attached on several threads on this forum here (mainly oriented to food IIRC). Allthough I disagree with some of its content regarding CCP/oprp decisions it's generally, usefully, informative.

 

JFI here is one, semi-quantitative approach, (an updated version of the CCP/oprp discrimination methodology is discussed elsewhere on this forum) for a Food detailed, "model" hazard analysis for fssc22000 based on iso22000-2005 for which the principle/majority probably still works for  iso22000:2018 -

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...ge-7#entry50651

 

Offhand, I cannot recall any similar detailed ISO-examples to the above for Packaging on this Forum although several threads exist (see FSSC Packaging sub-forum) which discuss aspects of the fssc22000 Packaging hazard analysis. I anticipate that when compared to food the Packaging risk assessment aspects are "simplified" in a similar way as for traditional Packaging haccp hazard analyses, eg increased focus on GMP-related features.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C





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