31 replies to this topic

[ArnieTheTerminator]

Hi Arnie,

 

the BRC clause says it all -

 

The BRC I.Guidelines somewhat amplify/interpret the above.

 

"Industry best practice" is IMEX flexible but often vaguely correlated to typical customer expectations although the latter often tend to be somewhat "ambitious".  Are you aware that Loma et al publish typical MD sensitivities for (afaik) non-metallized packaging / typical, practical, apertures and product types (eg wet/dry) ? The Tables are available in various threads on this Forum.

 

Actually I'm a little surprised that for yr specific case Loma didn't mention  X-Ray (eg Post 18). Probably more expensive though.

Yes I am familiar now as they sent this chart for non met product specs

 

Take a look at their dry product specification chart for sensi. 

 

They probably didn't mention Xray as we are a small start up in a small facility, and X-ray would be overkill for us as we don't retail anything just yet. 

Also, the food authorities in the UK are very well... missing. Some new food businesses have not been audited or visited since 2019. 

Attached Files

•  Dry Product Sensitivity Chart.pdf   116.88KB   13 downloads

Edited by ArnieTheTerminator, 26 May 2022 - 03:21 PM.

[Charles.C]

Yes I am familiar now as they sent this chart for non met product specs

 

Take a look at their dry product specification chart for sensi. 

 

They probably didn't mention Xray as we are a small start up in a small facility, and X-ray would be overkill for us as we don't retail anything just yet. 

Also, the food authorities in the UK are very well... missing. Some new food businesses have not been audited or visited since 2019. 

There you are then. Good to Go.

 

Now all you have to do is validate the numbers (eg Post 17).

 

PS - a useful example of a MD, sensitivity validation scheme is attached here -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...on/#entry184920

Edited by Charles.C, 27 May 2022 - 08:26 AM.
added

[ArnieTheTerminator]

Hey everyone

 

just a quick update.

 

So we went ahead and sent an order confirmation to Loma.

 

To my surprise we've just been told that the stated sensitivities are not guaranteed, even though the meeting at our premises stated this in the documentation, in Loma's online documentation for the IQ3+E and in emails. Not sure what to think of it. 

We sent metalised pouches and got less sensitivity but told them we would change our packaging to non-met and told verbally via email that we would get the sensitivities previously mentioned i.e 1.0-1.2 FE / 1.0-1.2 NFE / 2.0 SS

 

Not sure what to make of this, are we being scammed? 

 

• We cannot guarantee sensitivities as customers change parameters from time to time, i.e. packaging, ingredients, etc. However, we can test some sample products, as we did in your case, to give an indication of what can be expected. When the engineer commissions the system on site, he will set it up to achieve the best possible sensitivities.

   

   

[ArnieTheTerminator]

Any opinions on the post above?

[Charles.C]

Any opinions on the post above?

Hi Arnie,

 

"Guarantee" IMEX is a rare "commodity" in this type of context. See the Validation Procedure I linked earlier for some possible "operational" reasons.

 

Nonetheless afaik MD's typically do have a Performance "Specification" which is associated/achieved with the Manufacturer's specific test Procedure. The former may/may not be attained under different "conditions" hence the necessity to run some "representative" samples if possible so as to get an idea regarding  likely installed capabilities.

 

I suggest you initially compare the "practical" results so far achieved against (a) the units "Standard" Specification, (b) The Manufacturer's chart of likely sensitivities for your own type of Product presentation, (c) your desired Objectives. How do they match up ?

[ArnieTheTerminator]

So, we got our IQ3+E from Loma.

 

Wheels were not installed, no schematics or wiring diagrams.

 

The customer service has been really odd. Zero follow up on commissioning, and it's been 3 months since delivered to our premises. They're acting really weird. I just asked for a schematic so we can connect to single phase (which is there requirement before booking a commission) but they've ignored my request for a diagram. So do they expect an electrician to come poking his head around connecting some wires and if it goes wrong who will be liable. The dude didn't have any instructions or diagrams.

I know it's not a big deal, but we got zero documentation. 

[Charles.C]

So, we got our IQ3+E from Loma.

 

Wheels were not installed, no schematics or wiring diagrams.

 

The customer service has been really odd. Zero follow up on commissioning, and it's been 3 months since delivered to our premises. They're acting really weird. I just asked for a schematic so we can connect to single phase (which is there requirement before booking a commission) but they've ignored my request for a diagram. So do they expect an electrician to come poking his head around connecting some wires and if it goes wrong who will be liable. The dude didn't have any instructions or diagrams.

I know it's not a big deal, but we got zero documentation. 

Hi Arnie,

 

I'm not sure I understand yr Post.

Do you mean that the equipment was delivered 3 months ago but is still waiting for the Supplier to connect it to mains Power ?