5 replies to this topic

[TahaOsama]

Good Afternoon,
I need your help, I just collect food samples from my workplace and results came up today with two deviations.
1. Cooked soup "vegetables soup" with total aerobic mesophilic bacteria count more than 100000.
2. Raw chicken to check supplier products and results was deviation in coagulase positive staphylococci more than 1000.

What is your opinion in the results attached, what might be the root cause for this?
How to avoid happening again?
And is that a huge risk?

Thanks 😊

Attached Files

•  Soup food microbiology result.jpg   379.93KB   0 downloads
•  Raw chicken food microbiology results.jpg   334.13KB   0 downloads

[olenazh]

Sorry, I'm not an expert in this industry, just general curiosity:

1. Cooked soup "vegetables soup" with total aerobic mesophilic bacteria count more than 100000 - HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED QUITTING TESTING FOR TPC TO AVOID CONFUSIONS? IS IT REALLY NECESSARY? CUSTOMER OR REGULATORY REQUEST?
2. Raw chicken to check supplier products and results was deviation in coagulase positive staphylococci more than 1000. - WHY DO YOU TEST RAW CHICKEN FOR STAPH IF IT'S GOING TO BE COOKED ANYWAY? IT'S NOT GOING TO BE CONSUMED RAW, IS IT?

[TahaOsama]

Sorry, I'm not an expert in this industry, just general curiosity:
1. Cooked soup "vegetables soup" with total aerobic mesophilic bacteria count more than 100000 - HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED QUITTING TESTING FOR TPC TO AVOID CONFUSIONS? IS IT REALLY NECESSARY? CUSTOMER OR REGULATORY REQUEST?
2. Raw chicken to check supplier products and results was deviation in coagulase positive staphylococci more than 1000. - WHY DO YOU TEST RAW CHICKEN FOR STAPH IF IT'S GOING TO BE COOKED ANYWAY? IT'S NOT GOING TO BE CONSUMED RAW, IS IT?

Thanks for your reply,
For total aerobic, yes it a government requirement, so I have to do it.

For staph in raw chicken, as staph might produce toxins which heating will not destroy it.

[Charles.C]

Good Afternoon,
I need your help, I just collect food samples from my workplace and results came up today with two deviations.
1. Cooked soup "vegetables soup" with total aerobic mesophilic bacteria count more than 100000.
2. Raw chicken to check supplier products and results was deviation in coagulase positive staphylococci more than 1000.

What is your opinion in the results attached, what might be the root cause for this?
How to avoid happening again?
And is that a huge risk?

Thanks

 

Hi TahaOsama,

 

I am curious as to the Official Requirements imposed on your Production. Do the Government ultimately sample/analyse themselves ?

 

The data in OP appears to represent one sample of each item. (I guess this was your "own" external lab, not an official one ?). Is there an actual Lot of Product ?

 

The typical sampling/analytical accuracy in microbial data causes any conclusions based on one sample to be highly questionable with respect to the overall lot.

 

I am not very familiar with GSO Standards but IIRC these are usually nmMc (n=5) based for acceptance/rejection with respect to the deviated organisms under discussion, ie not based on 1 sample.

 

Regarding the specific numbers reported -

 

(2) COPS - I agree post 2 that requirement for raw chicken is debatable. (It is also unclear what "raw chicken" actually means ?).  Nonetheless the result, if representative of a lot is unusually high, even for a raw material. and could indicate contaminated sample/sanitation/handling problems etc (but also see next sentence). In comparison the result for APC is amazingly low for a raw material and the quoted limit for E.coli (assumed generic) looks  more like that for a cooked RTE product (eg compare the 2 quoted limits in the OP), very strange.

(1) APC. The number 170,000  is sufficiently close to the quoted limit that no conclusion is possible IMO due my introductory comments above.

 

I suggest -

 

(a) Check the precise requirements in GSO Standard.

(b) Test more samples (eg n=5) which should be representative of the actual Lot involved. (Assuming there is a Lot?)

(c) may be worthwhile to enquire as to the actual methodology used by lab for COPS (IMEX labs may use a variety of methods albeit "based on" official references ).

[TahaOsama]

Hi TahaOsama,

 

I am curious as to the Official Requirements imposed on your Production. Do the Government ultimately sample/analyse themselves ?

 

The data in OP appears to represent one sample of each item. (I guess this was your "own" external lab, not an official one ?). Is there an actual Lot of Product ?

 

The typical sampling/analytical accuracy in microbial data causes any conclusions based on one sample to be highly questionable with respect to the overall lot.

 

I am not very familiar with GSO Standards but IIRC these are usually nmMc (n=5) based for acceptance/rejection with respect to the deviated organisms under discussion, ie not based on 1 sample.

 

Regarding the specific numbers reported -

 

(2) COPS - I agree post 2 that requirement for raw chicken is debatable. (It is also unclear what "raw chicken" actually means ?).  Nonetheless the result, if representative of a lot is unusually high, even for a raw material. and could indicate contaminated sample/sanitation/handling problems etc (but also see next sentence). In comparison the result for APC is amazingly low for a raw material and the quoted limit for E.coli (assumed generic) looks  more like that for a cooked RTE product (eg compare the 2 quoted limits in the OP), very strange.

(1) APC. The number 170,000  is sufficiently close to the quoted limit that no conclusion is possible IMO due my introductory comments above.

 

I suggest -

 

(a) Check the precise requirements in GSO Standard.

(b) Test more samples (eg n=5) which should be representative of the actual Lot involved. (Assuming there is a Lot?)

(c) may be worthwhile to enquire as to the actual methodology used by lab for COPS (IMEX labs may use a variety of methods albeit "based on" official references ).

 

Thanks Charles for your reply,

 

For GSO yes number of lots should be 5 "n=5", i will take another samples for chicken for microbiological analysis.

 

And i understand if Coagulase positive staphylococci is high indicates poor hygienic practices which will result also in raising the E.coli and Total aerobic mesophilic count, Am i right?

[Charles.C]

Thanks Charles for your reply,

 

For GSO yes number of lots should be 5 "n=5", i will take another samples for chicken for microbiological analysis.

 

And i understand if Coagulase positive staphylococci is high indicates poor hygienic practices which will result also in raising the E.coli and Total aerobic mesophilic count, Am i right?

Hi Taha,

 

What "presentation" was the "raw chicken" ? eg processed / chilled / frozen such as breast/leg meat etc or ?  This (ie history) may influence the interpretation of microbial data.

 

E.coli is a useful hygiene indicator but IMEX (seafood) APC not so much for raw foods. COPS (S.aureus COP is afaik the most significant constituent from a safety POV) is typically a poor competitor so values such as 1500 cfu/gm are IMEX  rare unless contamination has occurred from some specific source / relatively low amounts of competing microbial flora exist (eg such as in RTE product).

 

I haven't checked the  GSO Standard but for RTE foods, it is quite common to find m=100,00 cfu/gm and M= either 500,000 or 1,000,000 cfu /gm with c=2 or 3 however stricter limits are also possible depending on location.