8 replies to this topic

[stevenbernardino]

I have two metal detectors, both of different makes and models. When I scheduled my annual calibration, they calibrated their company's metal detector, but only validated the other metal detector (because it was not their company's machine). Does their validation mean I don't need it to be calibrated? Will this be okay to show the auditor as my annual calibration?

[Brothbro]

Do you know how specifically the technician "validated" the machine? Did they simply place a small piece of foreign material inside a dummy package to ensure the machine would reject it? I would be hesitant to consider what the tech did a "calibration", because it does not sound like they have the ability to change any of the machine's parameters. What sort of certificate or assurance did the technician give you for that machine? Cert of Calibration? Or of "Validation"?

[mgourley]

At the risk of starting a war here, "Validation" of a metal detector's effectiveness requires a whole bunch more than whether or not it detects test pieces.
That's certainly a part of it, but you should also document the frequency it operates at, the speed of the conveyance that passes through the detector, the aperture size, the location of where the test pieces are run through, at least 20 passes per test piece, etc. If you have an air operated reject mechanism, what is the minimum air pressure required to successfully reject the test piece(s), etc.

 

Marshall

  

[beautiophile]

There is the difference between calibration and validation.

 

Calibration is to build the relation (e.g. equation / mathematic function) between the sample input vs the signal. In an example of your case, the relation is signal=beep while metal piece size > 1mm and signal=silent then the size < 1mm.

 

While validation is the verification for later intended use. Most validation from an outside institute means the functions of a measuring device match its technical specification claimed by the manufacturer. It doesn't say it fits your need at all. But AFAIK, their validation procedure includes a calibration step. So I agree with the above comment that it should be clear if the certificate mentions Validation or Calibration.

 

Either case, it need your own validation. In the other words, a record verifies that the calibrated (or validated specification) detector is suitable to detect the size of metal piece as food safety requirement.

Edited by beautiophile, 11 May 2023 - 12:54 AM.

[Charles.C]

I have two metal detectors, both of different makes and models. When I scheduled my annual calibration, they calibrated their company's metal detector, but only validated the other metal detector (because it was not their company's machine). Does their validation mean I don't need it to be calibrated? Will this be okay to show the auditor as my annual calibration?

Hi SB,

 

As already noted, relevant answers may relate to what was  actually meant by Calibration and Validation.

 

 

JFI, BRC believe it is not possible to "calibrate" a MD (see 2nd link following below).

 

For SQF, this post attempted to answer their interpretation (Ver 8.1) of MD/(Va and Ve) (Seems No Guidance for Ver9) -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...on/#entry184920

 

This Post attempted to clarify the mysterious World of MD Calibration -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...rs/#entry105910

[stevenbernardino]

........Nothing is black and white in this GFSI world..... 
It kills me

[Charles.C]

........Nothing is black and white in this GFSI world..... 
It kills me

 

Hi SB,

 

One comment is that if SQF's guidance for ver 8.1 still valid, the basic Validation requirements seem fairly straightforward, ie not requiring details as described in Post 3.

 

Surely the hired technician included some details as to what he/she actually did for the money ??

 

I also suggest you have a look at the SQF Tip 16 current document regarding "Validation".

 

You seem to have insufficient data on one MD for -

 

11.2.3.3   Calibration shall be performed according to regulatory requirements and/or to the equipment manufacturers’ recommended schedule.

(unusual and IMO probably unrealistic  requirement from my non-SQF experiences).

[Ryan M.]

I've never heard of metal detector calibration?  I am very aware of metal detector validation which includes the initial setup and dialing in the metal detector, and all related systems, for your products that are passing through it.

 

Settings in the metal detector software or system are maybe what people are confusing with calibration?  I would say that is part of validation to ensure the settings have no changed, and the metal detector is still working as intended.

[Charles.C]

I've never heard of metal detector calibration?  I am very aware of metal detector validation which includes the initial setup and dialing in the metal detector, and all related systems, for your products that are passing through it.

 

Settings in the metal detector software or system are maybe what people are confusing with calibration?  I would say that is part of validation to ensure the settings have no changed, and the metal detector is still working as intended.

Hi Ryan,

 

This testing Company "sort of" agree with you -

 

In a metal detector audit, quality control personnel need to understand the difference between calibration and verification.  Metal detectors are not calibratable.  There is no standard to which a metal detector can be set.

 

 metal detector, MD - Calibration, Validation and Verification.pdf   409.15KB   41 downloads

 

I guess it's just another example of variable usage/interpretation of common terminologies.

 

By analogy to "Va/Ve"  - Say what you Mean vs Mean what you Say !