9 replies to this topic

[Cherrypie68]

Hi

What are people's thoughts on this process:

1. raw sausage cooked by supplier and frozen

2. delivered to another manufacturing factory frozen and stored frozen

3. defrosted in chiller

4. assembled into wraps with other raw materials

5. re-frozen and sold as frozen

6. Defrosted by another company

7. re-heated

 

I always thought it was best practise not to re-freeze thawed items. Would a set of validated micro and organoleptic tests be sufficient?

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Charles.C]

Hi

What are people's thoughts on this process:

1. raw sausage cooked by supplier and frozen

2. delivered to another manufacturing factory frozen and stored frozen

3. defrosted in chiller

4. assembled into wraps with other raw materials

5. re-frozen and sold as frozen

6. Defrosted by another company

7. re-heated

 

I always thought it was best practise not to re-freeze thawed items. Would a set of validated micro and organoleptic tests be sufficient?

Any ideas?

Thanks

Hi CP,

 

I assume commercialised as RTE ?

 

Is the Use By successively "upgraded" ?

[Cherrypie68]

Hi

They are reheated then supplied to customers to eat immediately - so yes.

What do you mean upgraded?

It was more the practice of the refreezing I was worried about  -I don't believe there is any validation for this - might be tested for micro 2-3 a year

Thanks

CP

[Cherrypie68]

actually - not just sausages - they defrost cooked chicken as well, add it to a tikka sauce - assemble the wrap and freeze it

[DFdk]

I see no issue, as long as you validate the parameters you set up for micro and organoleptic.

This practise is done by many manufactures world wide.

[Scampi]

I would caution you heavily on the thawing practices

 

this needs to be controlled and monitored 

 

For example

5.4 Thawing poultry in water

The thawing procedures must

• prevent the product from becoming adulterated by the absorption of water
• prevent net gain in weight over the frozen weight, when poultry products are thawed for repackaging

When ready-to-cook poultry may be thawed in water by one of the following methods:

• using continuous running tap water of sufficient volume and for such limited time as is necessary for thawing. The thawing medium must not exceed a temperature of 21°C
• in re-circulated water, maintained at a temperature not in excess of 10°C, for such limited time as is necessary for thawing
• by placing frozen ready-to-cook poultry into cooking kettles, without prior thawing. This will be permitted when a representative sample of the entire lot has been thawed and found to be sound and unadulterated

Thawed poultry may be held in tanks of crushed ice with continuous drainage, pending further processing or packaging.

 

Thawing practices for meat products should be designed to prevent cross-contamination of the product by other sources of micro-organisms, to prevent cross-contamination of surfaces and other products by the product and to minimize bacterial growth resulting from temperature abuse. Most bacteria in meat will be present on the surface of the meat. In the freezing process, the surface temperature is rapidly reduced and bacteria multiplication on the surface is severely limited. In the thawing process the reverse is true – the surface temperature increases first, and bacteria can begin to multiply, unless conditions are controlled to prevent this from happening. The larger the size of the product, the greater this effect, so that on very large pieces of meat, surface spoilage and growth of pathogens can occur before the internal temperature reaches thawing temperatures. Therefore meat products must be thawed as quickly as possible and care must be taken to minimize the time that any portion of the meat is above 4 degrees Celsius. Thawing time depends on a number of factors including, among others, size and shape of the product, particularly its thickness, and the temperature of the thawing medium. Meat is generally considered to be thawed when the temperature reaches 0 degrees Celsius. Air and water thawing are most frequently used. If thawing meat in water, the water must be cold, potable and continuously exchanged. The continuously running tap water must not exceed 21 degrees Celsius and the surface temperature of the meat product must not exceed 7 degrees Celsius at any time during thawing. Ideally, the meat product is removed from the cardboard packaging and thawed in plastic to avoid net gain while thawing in water. When thawing meat using passive air, the product must be kept in a refrigerated room of 4 degrees Celsius or less. When all portions of the meat have reached 0 degrees Celsius, the product must be processed or stored at a temperature of 4 degrees Celsius or less. Often, meat that is to be used in products where it is to be ground or cut into small pieces before it is used, can be tempered (thawed to a temperature of -5 degrees Celsius to -2 degrees Celsius) rather than completely thawed. Microbiological quality of thawed meat is affected not only by the final surface temperature of the meat, but also by the microbial load when the meat was frozen. The higher the microbial load, the greater the microbial load when the meat thaws. The higher the temperature for thawing, the greater the increase in microbial numbers. The thawing method should be designed to raise the temperature of the meat as quickly as possible, but control the surface temperature (to a maximum of 7 degrees Celsius) as much as possible. Thermometers should be used to monitor the internal temperature during thawing, and time/temperature should be tracked.

The regulatory requirements contained in this guideline will be met when:

(P9.10.01.09.01) the thawing process for frozen meat products is controlled, monitored and designed to prevent surface temperatures from rising to unacceptable levels during thawing.

[Charles.C]

Hi

They are reheated then supplied to customers to eat immediately - so yes.

What do you mean upgraded?

It was more the practice of the refreezing I was worried about  -I don't believe there is any validation for this - might be tested for micro 2-3 a year

Thanks

CP

I meant - do they (step  5) recalculate the USE BY of final sold product based on the final packing date. IIRC, this would be illegal for chilled goods but probably not for frozen.

 

My guess (for reasons  illustrated Post 6) is that there may be some interesting  intra/inter variations in final micro quality and possibly also with respect to UK, RTE Guidelines.

 

[DeadPresident]

I would caution you heavily on the thawing practices

 

this needs to be controlled and monitored 

 

For example

5.4 Thawing poultry in water

The thawing procedures must

• prevent the product from becoming adulterated by the absorption of water
• prevent net gain in weight over the frozen weight, when poultry products are thawed for repackaging

When ready-to-cook poultry may be thawed in water by one of the following methods:

• using continuous running tap water of sufficient volume and for such limited time as is necessary for thawing. The thawing medium must not exceed a temperature of 21°C
• in re-circulated water, maintained at a temperature not in excess of 10°C, for such limited time as is necessary for thawing
• by placing frozen ready-to-cook poultry into cooking kettles, without prior thawing. This will be permitted when a representative sample of the entire lot has been thawed and found to be sound and unadulterated

Thawed poultry may be held in tanks of crushed ice with continuous drainage, pending further processing or packaging.

 

Thawing practices for meat products should be designed to prevent cross-contamination of the product by other sources of micro-organisms, to prevent cross-contamination of surfaces and other products by the product and to minimize bacterial growth resulting from temperature abuse. Most bacteria in meat will be present on the surface of the meat. In the freezing process, the surface temperature is rapidly reduced and bacteria multiplication on the surface is severely limited. In the thawing process the reverse is true – the surface temperature increases first, and bacteria can begin to multiply, unless conditions are controlled to prevent this from happening. The larger the size of the product, the greater this effect, so that on very large pieces of meat, surface spoilage and growth of pathogens can occur before the internal temperature reaches thawing temperatures. Therefore meat products must be thawed as quickly as possible and care must be taken to minimize the time that any portion of the meat is above 4 degrees Celsius. Thawing time depends on a number of factors including, among others, size and shape of the product, particularly its thickness, and the temperature of the thawing medium. Meat is generally considered to be thawed when the temperature reaches 0 degrees Celsius. Air and water thawing are most frequently used. If thawing meat in water, the water must be cold, potable and continuously exchanged. The continuously running tap water must not exceed 21 degrees Celsius and the surface temperature of the meat product must not exceed 7 degrees Celsius at any time during thawing. Ideally, the meat product is removed from the cardboard packaging and thawed in plastic to avoid net gain while thawing in water. When thawing meat using passive air, the product must be kept in a refrigerated room of 4 degrees Celsius or less. When all portions of the meat have reached 0 degrees Celsius, the product must be processed or stored at a temperature of 4 degrees Celsius or less. Often, meat that is to be used in products where it is to be ground or cut into small pieces before it is used, can be tempered (thawed to a temperature of -5 degrees Celsius to -2 degrees Celsius) rather than completely thawed. Microbiological quality of thawed meat is affected not only by the final surface temperature of the meat, but also by the microbial load when the meat was frozen. The higher the microbial load, the greater the microbial load when the meat thaws. The higher the temperature for thawing, the greater the increase in microbial numbers. The thawing method should be designed to raise the temperature of the meat as quickly as possible, but control the surface temperature (to a maximum of 7 degrees Celsius) as much as possible. Thermometers should be used to monitor the internal temperature during thawing, and time/temperature should be tracked.

The regulatory requirements contained in this guideline will be met when:

(P9.10.01.09.01) the thawing process for frozen meat products is controlled, monitored and designed to prevent surface temperatures from rising to unacceptable levels during thawing.

 

 

Scampi,

 

are these Canadian regualtions?

[Scampi]

yes there are----from CFIA and scientifically sound

[Charles.C]

yes there are----from CFIA and scientifically sound

I do not see any reference to Validation ?

 

Offhand, the temperatures 7degC, 10degC, 21degC mentioned look microbiologically "intuitive".

(The limiting temperature 10degC is also used for semi-static thawing in my area (seafood) and I once experienced an auditor querying this. IIRC I failed to find any scientifically validated reasoning so I quoted a textbook comment that rate of growth of Salmonella was extremely slow below 10deg which was accepted !)