11 replies to this topic

[LivingHealthy86]

Does anyone know of a service that will come in and provide a Probability of Detection (POD) or False Reject Rate (FRR) analysis of our metal detectors? Something to note is that this is completely different from the annual calibration we have conducted by our metal detector vender, ThermoFisher Scientific -- they do not provide this service. 

 

We were provided this website as an example of what a POD or FRR looks like:  https://techni-k.co....ion-validation/

 

 

Thank you!! 

Edited by LivingHealthy86, 25 July 2023 - 04:22 PM.

[Planck]

Wow, we're finally seeing this issue.

Yes, the metal detector is really a complex equipment from a certain point of view.

When you ask questions like this, I believe your MD is already highly reliable, so you need to make further confirmations including improving your equipment.

 

I believe that we are specialized in this field and I believe that we can provide this service very perfectly and directly.

 

I've attached a few pictures here, so I'm sure you should be able to make an initial judgment of what we've done.

 

If you have further questions, we can discuss them directly here or we can also get in touch directly.

 

 01.jpg   150.64KB   0 downloads  02.jpg   746.72KB   0 downloads  03.jpg   168.76KB   0 downloads  04.jpg   71.08KB   0 downloads

 

Finally, we have two simple case from our customers that I believe can further assist in explaining our level:

1, One of our customers complained to us that their MD equipment had 9 false alarms in 3 days, this customer asked us to solve the frequent false alarm problem.

2, Another customer of ours has successfully performed 260,000 consecutive test piece verifications over a period of 3 years by our simple count.

 

 

We are happy to answer any challenging questions. Thanks.

Edited by Simon, 25 July 2023 - 05:56 PM.
removed email

[LivingHealthy86]

Thanks for your response Planck. 

 

We have not had any issues or concerns with the metal detector.

We were asked to conduct this analysis as a non-conformity from an audit we had by a rather larger retailer in the industry. 

[mgourley]

The article you cite is pretty much what one of our customers have us do.

I'd attach the actual forms, but they are more than likely proprietary.

 

Marshall

[LivingHealthy86]

mgourly- May I ask who you use to preform the tests? We are having difficulty finding someone. Thank you. 

[Planck]

Thanks for your response Planck. 

 

We have not had any issues or concerns with the metal detector.

We were asked to conduct this analysis as a non-conformity from an audit we had by a rather larger retailer in the industry. 

Thanks. Yes, I'm certainly sure there's nothing issues with your metal detector. In our experience, this question is raised only in such cases.

Simply said to do this job, you first need 2 sets of data:

1, The signal value when the product passes through the metal detector.

2,  Signal values of three metal test pieces, incluede Fe, nFe and SS.

 

And please note:
1, Some brands of metal detectors do not display the signal value directly. You may need to take steps such as having the computer record these values.

 

You can then analyze these data in a number of ways.

Then you can know that when you set different control line / value you will get different POD or FRR.

Obviously, when the control line is lower, then the FRR is higher.

And the higher the control line, the lower the POD.

 

The higher the number of these data the better, if possible we recommend 200 or more per set, so a total of at least 800.

You can see the amount of data we recorded in the screenshot pictures.

 

Frankly, we can provide this service directly (we are actually a metal detector service provider.), but we can't discuss business directly here, and I can't leave an contact Information, however we can still open to discussing / share any issues involving metal detectors.

 

thanks.

[mgourley]

mgourly- May I ask who you use to preform the tests? We are having difficulty finding someone. Thank you. 

 

We do it ourselves, but I'm sure you can have a service tech from your metal detector manufacturer come in and do it.

 

Marshall

[SQFconsultant]

I found out a while back that the reason why MD manufacturers will not provide this service is that they do not want to risk the appearance of poor proformance on their equipment.

It was actually a rep from Fortress that turned us onto labs that either specialized in metals or had this service available as an additional service.

Thus unless you want to DIY you should contact a couple and see if you can find directly or indirectly.

Edited by SQFconsultant, 25 July 2023 - 08:45 PM.

[LivingHealthy86]

SQFconsultant - thank you  for your feedback. Are you able to provide any names of the labs or business that do provide this test? We are located in the Midwest. 

[Planck]

We do it ourselves, but I'm sure you can have a service tech from your metal detector manufacturer come in and do it.

 

Marshall

May I know which brand of metal detector you used? From what we know, there are no metal detector companies that offer this service directly.

 

Please note the quotation:

Something to note is that this is completely different from the annual calibration we have conducted by our metal detector vender, ThermoFisher Scientific -- they do not provide this service.

 

And more importantly, many current models of metal detectors do not support this analysis well, as it requires a direct display of the signal values of the product and the metal test piece. The only one I know of that seems to be fully supported by LOMA.

 

Of course, in this case, there may be other ways to do it, so is it appropriate for you to share a little bit about your method?

 

Thanks.

[Planck]

I found out a while back that the reason why MD manufacturers will not provide this service is that they do not want to risk the appearance of poor proformance on their equipment.

It was actually a rep from Fortress that turned us onto labs that either specialized in metals or had this service available as an additional service.

Thus unless you want to DIY you should contact a couple and see if you can find directly or indirectly.

I was originally an RD engineer and then worked as a metal detector service engineer for LOMA.

In fact, strictly speaking, this demand from customers goes beyond the metal detector itself.

Of course, I also think the manufacturer should provide this support.

 

And in fact, the actual use of the metal detector directly affects its performance.

It's very similar to a car, which needs a excellent driver to show off its performance perfectly.

 

I'm willing to share any driving techniques here.:)

[Planck]

SQFconsultant - thank you  for your feedback. Are you able to provide any names of the labs or business that do provide this test? We are located in the Midwest. 

Hello again, if you can let me know your equipment model and provide me with those data I mentioned, I can also help you analyze it and provide a persuasive analysis report.
In fact, we have done this many times for our customers, and this includes some companies from your country.

Thanks.