8 replies to this topic

[MMQA]

We are in the baked goods business and have certain equipment that is dry cleaned. Our method (in short), is to scrape the dough off, clean with a solution and towel, then apply our quat sanitizer. The higher ups have decided to eliminate the cleaning solution and just dry clean (scrape) and sanitize. I recently joined the company so it seems to be common practice to make a change like this without proper validation, which I have to tackle. The other thing is they would like to apply oil (cooking oil) to the belts after the cleaning but the oil would sit there for a day. I have never heard of something like this and would appreciate any feedback in regards to the dry cleaning.

[SQFconsultant]

I've never heard of this.

 

I would start by asking the higher ups where they got this idea - you might be shocked at the answer.

[jfrey123]

I worked in a spice plant that would dry clean for certain runs, then wet clean using only water followed with an alcohol sanitizer.  We had cleaning validations that showed our process was sufficient, so it was acceptable to auditors.  If you're going to stop using a cleaner, I'd recommend starting small and only clean one of the items in question, and send samples off to a lab.  Compare them to your previous validations for microbiological and any potential allergen risks, and so long as the dry cleaned and sanitized items aren't showing a risk, it should be sufficient.

 

The oil on the belts sounds sketch to me.  Once you apply the oil, your sanitizer is now effectively gone and who knows what dust and other airborne microparticles that oil will pick up in the day before it's used.  I'd be asking why they can't just apply the oil as part of pre-op.

[Scampi]

whoa   What is the justification/reason for removing the cleaning step?

 

you would have to validate the new method as since you've mentioned dough, I'm assuming e coli is a concern and maybe salmonella (if you use unpasteurized eggs)

 

sanitizers don't work over residue so I doubt very much you're going to get swab results you're happy with (but i could be wrong)

[MMQA]

whoa   What is the justification/reason for removing the cleaning step?

 

you would have to validate the new method as since you've mentioned dough, I'm assuming e coli is a concern and maybe salmonella (if you use unpasteurized eggs)

 

sanitizers don't work over residue so I doubt very much you're going to get swab results you're happy with (but i could be wrong)

 

They believe its causing belts to become brittle and rip. hence the oil I guess, does not make sense to me since we use a chemical company to recommend chemicals to us. we do use pasteurized eggs. 

[Brothbro]

They believe its causing belts to become brittle and rip. hence the oil I guess, does not make sense to me since we use a chemical company to recommend chemicals to us. we do use pasteurized eggs. 

 

If the issue is that belts are becoming damaged, the proper response on their part would be to look for a different belt material! Or find a different cleaner that is more compatible with the current material. Cleaning of conveyors is a common issue in the food industry, and there are dozens of belt manufacturers to chose from that specialize in belts that can be cleaned effectively. 

 

Like Scampi says, if you have historical swab results on your belts you can expect those numbers to go up. You're going to coat the belts in oil then never apply a cleaning solution to remove it; bacteria will simply stick to the surface and say there. The sanitizer will likely not penetrate the built up oil. Instead, filth will accumulate.

 

I would reach out to your cleaner/sanitizer manufacturer for their input. They will probably say that sanitizing is only effective with proper cleaning, and that the system your management is proposing will create big sanitation issues. That may give some leverage to your case. The company could be looking at much higher expenses than replacing a couple belts.

Edited by Brothbro, 08 September 2023 - 10:04 PM.

[WeedFeedNSeed]

I agree with the general direction of the comments (as im sure you do too). In the end you will effectively be sanitising the top layer of a build up of filth particularly if you are applying cooking oil to the belt. It seems a very strange practice.

[MMQA]

I agree with the general direction of the comments (as im sure you do too). In the end you will effectively be sanitising the top layer of a build up of filth particularly if you are applying cooking oil to the belt. It seems a very strange practice.

Yes I agree, I just had to put it out there because I was shocked. In this line of work you are made to feel like you are crazy every so often so I just had to check.

[kingstudruler1]

There are products out there such as san-duo and alpet that are meant for "dry cleaning"  the first "wipe" cleans the second "wipe" sanitizes.  But I don't think that is what we are talking about.  

 

I know i'm preaching to the choir, but  I don't think they have found the root cause or belts ripping.    

 

I too would explore different cleaners, belt material, and belt life expectations.   If they will listen.  

 

you are correct in that the practice should be validated.   Which im guessing will go poorly.  Is the next justification "its pre-lethality"?