Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

Flow Diagram Confirmation at all operation stages

Share this

  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic
- - - - -

Cäsar

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 7 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Germany
    Germany

Posted 30 November 2023 - 10:44 AM

Hi there,

I am currently struggling with the operation stages confirmation in HACCP flow Diagramms.

 

Given that stages are production, cleaning and maintenance - how can I confirm a production flow diagramm during maintenance?

 

 

I am sure I miss something oot here, maybe you can help me further?

 

Thank you very much !

 

Regards

 

Cäsar


  • 0

MOHAMMED ZAMEERUDDIN

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 297 posts
  • 63 thanks
64
Excellent

  • India
    India
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Sharing the Knowledge

Posted 30 November 2023 - 12:18 PM

Hi Casar,

Production flow diagram needs to confirm during actual production. This is an on-site confirmation of flow diagram.


  • 0

Cäsar

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 7 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Germany
    Germany

Posted 30 November 2023 - 12:29 PM

Hi Mohammed,

I agree with what you say - but IFS says:

 

"2.2.3.4 On-site confirmation of the flow diagram:
Representatives of the HACCP team shall verify the flow diagram, by on-site verifications, at all
operation stages
and shifts. Where appropriate, amendments to the diagram shall be made."

 

What is the definition of "operation stages"? IFS does not give the definition, but it seems as if the understanding is production, maintenance, cleaning, ...


  • 0

Scampi

    Fellow

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 6,031 posts
  • 1635 thanks
1,808
Excellent

  • Canada
    Canada
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 30 November 2023 - 01:03 PM

Your flow needs to show that maintenance could be anywhere at anytime----that is best summarized with a statement on your flow chart, same goes for your QA/QC staff


  • 0

Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


Lynx42

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 98 posts
  • 22 thanks
17
Good

  • United States
    United States

Posted 30 November 2023 - 04:53 PM

I think maintenance would be a PRP, and cleaning too?  I'm in the beginning stages of developing a HACCP Plan (storage only facility), but one thing training said is "follow the food" so maintenance and cleaning are not on my flow chart as food doesn't flow through it, but we have SOP's for both.

 

The training example had maintenance and cleaning under "controlled at" on some steps.  

 

From my notes:

What is NOT a process step?

Ordering ingredients

Testing ingredients

Cleaning the line

Calibrating the metal detector

Washing hands.


  • 0

Tony-C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,632 posts
  • 1384 thanks
747
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:World
  • Interests:My main interests are sports particularly football, pool, scuba diving, skiing and ten pin bowling.

Posted 01 December 2023 - 04:40 AM

Hi Cäsar,

 

I think the term 'operational stages' is maybe confusing you, these will typically be the steps in your process flow diagram from raw material receipt through to processing, storage and distribution. 

 

Daily and seasonal variations (e.g Christmas products) need to be considered as well.

 

See this BRCGS Example Process Flow:

 

Attached File  BRCGS Example Process Flow.png   282.31KB   6 downloads

 

You will need to check all operational stages in the flow diagram.

 

Cleaning and maintenance do not need to go on the flow diagram. I do sometimes see examples where cleaning may be included, for example washing of product prior to processing or similar to step 19 Disinfection in the flow diagram above where items are cleaned/disinfected on transfer into a high-care/risk area.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony


  • 2

Practical HACCP Training for Food Safety Teams - Live Webinar next Friday May 09, 2025

Also immediately available via the previous webinar recording. 

Fantastic value at $97/per person, but don’t take our word for it, read the Customer Reviews here

 

Celebrating 15 years of IFSQN Implementation Packages: 

:cheers: 

 

IFSQN BRC, FSSC 22000, IFS, ISO 22000, SQF (Food, Packaging, Storage & Distribution) Implementation Packages - The Easy Way to Certification

 

Practical Internal Auditor Training for Food Operations - Live Webinar - Friday June 06, 2025 - Also immediately available via the previous webinar recording. Fantastic value at $97/per person, but don’t take our word for it, read the Customer Reviews here


Thanked by 1 Member:

MOHAMMED ZAMEERUDDIN

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 297 posts
  • 63 thanks
64
Excellent

  • India
    India
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Sharing the Knowledge

Posted 01 December 2023 - 04:55 AM

Completely agreed with Tony. He nicely explained the issue in a comprehensive manner.


  • 0

beautiophile

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 279 posts
  • 85 thanks
43
Excellent

  • Vietnam
    Vietnam
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 December 2023 - 05:56 AM

I worked a certain deep in technical matter and would classify Tony's pic as "flow chart". A process flow diagram should indicate material flows and equipment layout, like in this wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia...ss_flow_diagram

 

So there are different interpretations. If a standard developer (BRCGS, SQF, etc.) doesn't give a clear difinition, debates will come among who implement the standard, e.g. ceritfied sites, consultants, auditors, trainers.

Be ready for that.


  • 0

Cäsar

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Active
  • 7 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Germany
    Germany

Posted 01 December 2023 - 06:53 AM

Hi Cäsar,

 

I think the term 'operational stages' is maybe confusing you, these will typically be the steps in your process flow diagram from raw material receipt through to processing, storage and distribution. 

 

Daily and seasonal variations (e.g Christmas products) need to be considered as well.

 

See this BRCGS Example Process Flow:

 

attachicon.gif BRCGS Example Process Flow.png

 

You will need to check all operational stages in the flow diagram.

 

Cleaning and maintenance do not need to go on the flow diagram. I do sometimes see examples where cleaning may be included, for example washing of product prior to processing or similar to step 19 Disinfection in the flow diagram above where items are cleaned/disinfected on transfer into a high-care/risk area.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

thank you for that explanation - I think it is (again) a topic where auditors start to make their own interpretations ;-(

 

Maybe here is an IFS auditor who can give us insight in what IFS is expecting.

 

Best regards

 

Cäsar


  • 0

Tony-C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,632 posts
  • 1384 thanks
747
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:World
  • Interests:My main interests are sports particularly football, pool, scuba diving, skiing and ten pin bowling.

Posted 01 December 2023 - 11:38 AM

I worked a certain deep in technical matter and would classify Tony's pic as "flow chart". A process flow diagram should indicate material flows and equipment layout, like in this wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia...ss_flow_diagram

 

So there are different interpretations. If a standard developer (BRCGS, SQF, etc.) doesn't give a clear difinition, debates will come among who implement the standard, e.g. ceritfied sites, consultants, auditors, trainers.

Be ready for that.

 

Hi beautiophile,

 

With respect, I have a fair amount of technical experience myself  :smile: 

 

I’m afraid I can’t take the credit for that process flow diagram, it is from BRCGS Guidance and if BRCGS say it is a process flow diagram, I am not going to disagree.

 

I think you have got it the wrong/wrong way round as the Wikipedia reference states: A process flow diagram (PFD) is a diagram commonly used in chemical and process engineering to indicate the general flow of plant processes and equipment. The PFD displays the relationship between major equipment of a plant facility and does not show minor details such as piping details and designations. Another commonly used term for a PFD is flowsheet.

 

CODEX General Principles of Food Hygiene states: A flow diagram that covers all steps in the production of a specific product, including any applicable rework, should be constructed. The flow diagram should indicate all inputs, including those of ingredients and food contact materials, water, and air, if relevant.

 

The BRCGS Global Standard for Food Safety Issue 9 Glossary states:

Flow Diagram: A systematic representation of the sequence of steps or operations used in the production or manufacture of a particular food item.

 

IFS Food definition of a Flow Diagram copies the CODEX General Principles of Food Hygiene wording to the letter: A systematic representation of the sequence of steps used in the production or manufacture of food.

 

I doubt that anyone will find a reference that a food product process flow diagram needs to include cleaning or maintenance but I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony


Edited by Tony-C, 01 December 2023 - 11:40 AM.

  • 0

Practical HACCP Training for Food Safety Teams - Live Webinar next Friday May 09, 2025

Also immediately available via the previous webinar recording. 

Fantastic value at $97/per person, but don’t take our word for it, read the Customer Reviews here

 

Celebrating 15 years of IFSQN Implementation Packages: 

:cheers: 

 

IFSQN BRC, FSSC 22000, IFS, ISO 22000, SQF (Food, Packaging, Storage & Distribution) Implementation Packages - The Easy Way to Certification

 

Practical Internal Auditor Training for Food Operations - Live Webinar - Friday June 06, 2025 - Also immediately available via the previous webinar recording. Fantastic value at $97/per person, but don’t take our word for it, read the Customer Reviews here




Share this

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users