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Benty666

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 02:17 PM

Hi Everyone,

 

The calibration certificates expire on 2 of our CCP units next week but we aren't able to get them certified until the 28th. We are also in our BRCGS and customer audit windows.

 

If an auditor does turn up where does that leave us? Should we raise an internal non-conformance now so that it is documented that an engineer is booked in? Should we even be using this CCP equipment at all?

 

My technical manager is on holiday at the minute so I'm just looking to try build my knowledge.

 

Thank you



Scampi

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 02:35 PM

Rent certified units in the interim     problem solved

 

 

Next year, send out your units AHEAD of the expiration to avoid this situation


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


SQFconsultant

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 03:15 PM

Get a statement from the certifying entity (calibration engineer, company providing etc) that they are scheduled on such and such date, have them provide you with a paid receipt and make a copy of your payment (check, mo, xrp transfer, etc) and then beg the auditor to not make a note of this oversight as this should have been taken care of already.


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kingstudruler1

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 03:26 PM

What are the CCP units?   

 

 

I too would do what glenn has stated and put it in my non conformity log.    Sometimes auditors will not give NCs if you have proactively found the problem and are working on corrective and preventive actions.   

 

Make sure they are scheduled well in advance in the future.   Example - change the schedudle to every 10 months or better yet twice per year per year.  Leave the documented validation frequency as annual.   


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Dorothy87

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 03:36 PM

Hi :) 

 

Raise this as NC, with the root cause analysis, corrective actions and preventative actions (responsibility, schedule, increase frequency of checks)

 

Then, source ASAP different service (double check section 3.5.3 - to approve this service) 

 

Technically, you shouldn't use these units.. hence why approach production manager / engineer for help - explain them why this is important. 

 

you didn't specify the equipment, maybe we can help with the service

 

;)



QA@Foodsafety

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 04:47 PM

Hi,

As per my knowledge if you raise internal NC and close it with root cause, preventive and corrective action (coorective cation is that visit already scheduled on...attach all the  evidences).

 

Its gap of couple of days, you can ask your caliberation company to send you an email that couple of days doesnt make issue with the caliberation. Its just the same as Best before. If the product has BB till today, it does mean that it is not good tommorow. It all depends on the product based on which BB is extended.

 

Check with your calibaetaion company.

 

Thanks



Benty666

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Posted 05 March 2024 - 06:23 PM

Hi all,

Sorry I've been painting so I'll try to reply to everything. Right so the CCP units are a 1 tonne cooling vessel and a cook quench cool unit so renting alternatives is probably out of the question.

I arrange calibration for about 90% of our equipment such as ref probes, checkweighers, metal detectors, scales, weights etc. The engineering team arrange calibrations of the cooking and cooling units. On this occasion they have left it too late. The old certificates specify the current ones run out on March 11th and the units can only be recalibrated on March 28th.

Thanks everyone for your assistance with this



MOHAMMED ZAMEERUDDIN

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 08:21 AM

What are your 2 ccps?



Benty666

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 08:49 AM

What are your 2 ccps?

Hi Mohammed,

 

We've got 3 CCP's in total. Cooking, Cooling and Metal Detection. The certs expire for the cooking and cooling ones. 

 

Thanks



kingstudruler1

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 03:57 PM

What is the third party company validating in this case?  if its just something as simple as a probe check you might be able to do something in house as part of your corrective and preventative actions.   Example remove probe and compare to certified thermomter or replace probe with a certified probe (however,  i think you still need to check its calibration according to brcgs).   


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GMO

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 04:20 AM

Sorry this will be too late now I'm guessing.

But yes, raise an internal non conformance and fix the system with the engineers so it doesn't happen again.

Secondly is there anything you can do internally? So do you have calibrated dataliggers for example? What I'd do is a risk assessment on continuing to use the equipment while it's out of calibration. For that you could use a few techniques for your data sources and justification, so for example:

Temperature probe records
Data logs
A review of product micro
PPM records to prove internal maintenance
Any contact with the company on likelihood of it being out of spec
Previous calibration results (especially if they don't normally need to make adjustments)

What you're trying to do here is get some data together to confirm for yourself (and an auditor) that there is no evidence that the machinery is out of calibration.

Once it's all fixed do make sure you do a couple of things, make sure that preventive action is nailed down so it can't happen again but also include this in your HACCP review. That will prove it's all been taken seriously as even once it's back in certification, it could still be a non con and a future issue if you don't.

Bloody engineers!



GMO

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 04:25 AM

Dataloggers!

Sorry I should have said, the reasoning for my answer is a certificate is just a moment in time. So the certificate running out isn't great but it's not like the temperature probe "knows". By reviewing your verification results, I think you can say you've been duly diligent (as far as possible).

But also give a big pat on the back to the person who found the issue before your auditor did! A grumpy auditor could still raise it but a thorough non con preventive action and risk assessment quickly produced would be enough for me to say "nah I have faith in this team".



Benty666

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 10:37 AM

Hi GMO,

 

Thanks for the reply. Yeah the calibrations were carried out on Wednesday and Thursday and thankfully no audits arrived on site. I raised it an an internal NCR just in case and my technical manager issued a concession. Our cooking and cooling CCP's are all checked with a manual probe against the internal probes. The manual probes are checked daily against a reference probe as well.

 

We do have different kinds of data loggers that we use as part of our annual CCP validations too.

 

I am the one who organises calibrations of equipment with the exception of our kettles and cooling vessels. This is done by our engineering admin who has already booked calibrations for next years certifications so we shouldn't be in this position again.



GMO

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:41 PM

Awesome. Just worth documenting that all as well just in case but glad it worked out ok.





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