9 replies to this topic

[GMO]

You may not know about them but they exist.  I saw a job advert yesterday for Deliveroo "Editions" which is their dark kitchen enterprise.  

 

These started before Covid but the latter caused a huge increase in them.  Essentially they are kitchens without the front of house.  Ostensibly they are the same as any restaurant kitchen but... I have my concerns.

 

• In the UK anyway, they are subject to the same inspections by EHOs etc as any other food premises.  BUT we all know EHO visits are the easiest to pass and are incredibly infrequent.
• Secondly with no customers, it cannot be underestimated how much customers will occasionally flag to an EHO that there is an issue in, say, a takeaway.  For example poor temperature control or pest activity.  (Ok, I admit it, I have been that customer.)
• By nature, these places are small.  They employ transient staff and probably only have one supervisor in each unit.  With little supervision, a lot of trust is being put into the hands of someone who could not only be compromising food safety but health and safety, environment and ethics.  Even if there is someone senior overseeing, say, 10 units, having those as 10 production lines in one room is just going to be easier to oversee.
• But what worries me more than those three is these are now broaching into food production.  On here and elsewhere I'm hearing rumours of them being used for ready meals, sandwiches etc.  Ready to eat or reheat food which will not be eaten immediately on delivery.  Food where the growth or survival of Listeria is a possibility but no segregation, no high care, no high risk.  In the 90s, the food industry in the UK drastically upped its game on fabrication, flow and design of food manufacturing.  It alarms me that we seem to be taking a step back without any discussion.

 

Thoughts?  Experience?  Am I overreacting?

[ChristinaK]

I think in the US we refer to these as "ghost kitchens." They really seemed to pop-up during the DoorDash/GrubHub/UberEats era.

I remember reading about a Chuck E Cheese establishing a ghost kitchen pizza place and a customer figured it out...

[SQFconsultant]

Never heard of a dark kitchen, that's a new one on me - but, here they are Mom and Pop's which were very big about 15 years ago - where a big food company would get a couple to start up a food production facility in a basement or 2 car garage (attached to their single family home) and in that way they could get a new product to the market fast - I busted a couple of them and it was unintentional - I was doing private label inspections for a chain of supermarkets and I got a schedule one day that included very small operations. Started pulling up in front of residential houses that week and here I was looking for a building and what I had was someone's house, knock on the front door and waited in the den with their golden retriever being their receptionist - escorted thru the family kitchen (which was used for a breakroom) and into an attached 2 car garage where they were packing cream cheese spread into 4 ounce containers - going to the fish market and getting salmon and smoking it in a home smoker and then chopping it up on a cutting board where the house cat took nibbles from.

 

Talked to the homeowners that just happened to work for one of the biggest food companies in the states and they told me all about how the food company had set up people at their houses to manufacturer product and the food company would send an unmarked u-haul van over once a day to pick a load up.

 

Those were fun days!

[Ryan M.]

I'm glad I'm getting out of food safety...AND, don't get food deliveries.

[GMO]

OMG the food in the garage example.  That would be straight up breaking the law in the UK and the botulinum and listeria risks of that process... mind boggling.  It would be no overstatement to say it's almost certain people died due to that kind of operation.

But in the UK we have A LOT of high risk, high moisture activity prepared chilled food which we learned through bitter experience is a BIG problem for Listeria if you get it wrong.

But over the years, we've got pretty good at doing it right.  A lot through retailer standards for sure, not necessarily legislation but it feels like a HUGE step backwards into lower level standards, lower level supervision, lower level fabrication.

What is really scary though is if the retailers start accepting stuff from places like this, why would the big manufacturers in their shiny facilities (some of which now need big investment to continue to be shiny) carry on?  Why not shift to a lower cost model?  Until the inevitable happens.

This reminds me of an excellent cautionary tales episode (great podcast - you should listen to it) about "unintended consequences" vs "unforeseen consequences".  Any of us here used to high care / high risk manufacturing will see the warning signs on this practice being used for manufacturing...  and we know it won't be intentional but it is foreseeable.  

[kfromNE]

Articles about ghost kitchens as they are called in the USA. Some are legit and some are not. I'm on a few local restaurant Facebook pages. They come up every now and then as people ordering items and not realizing they ordered from a ghost kitchen until afterward. Usually bad reviews. 

Legit ghost kitchens - I know of one operated by a restaurant group. It basically works as a commercial space for restaurants that only offer delivery. 

 

https://www.eater.co...elivery-takeout

 

https://www.cnn.com/...-out/index.html

[GMO]

It basically works as a commercial space for restaurants that only offer delivery. 

 

Yep I'm aware of that model, but what I'm writing about is an extension of that.  It's about use of dark kitchens more widely, for products which would have traditionally been made in highly controlled factory settings.  With shelf lives and water activities which could lead to Listeria growth.  

[kfromNE]

Yep I'm aware of that model, but what I'm writing about is an extension of that.  It's about use of dark kitchens more widely, for products which would have traditionally been made in highly controlled factory settings.  With shelf lives and water activities which could lead to Listeria growth.  

 

Understood. Yeah, it is scary and alarming. Not sure how widespread that problem is in the US. What I've seen - grocery stores wanting to stock their shelves with items made locally. The problem, they aren't always vetted by the grocery store and once it is done, the small business has no food safety program in place. 

[GMO]

There are some supermarkets doing similar but every food business in the UK needs EHO approval,the problem is EHOs are only knowledgeable to a level and also looking for direct evidence of immediate risk. It's one of the reasons a food premises will be shut down immediately for pest issues but not Listeria bad practice.

[G M]

You may not know about them but they exist.  I saw a job advert yesterday for Deliveroo "Editions" which is their dark kitchen enterprise.  

...

Thoughts?  Experience?  Am I overreacting?

 

One of the reasons I will never trust food delivery unless I know for certain where its coming from.

 

They pose a lot of the same problems as processed foods sold at informal "farmers" markets.  Extremely minimal inspections or safety regulation, and good luck following up with liability if something does go wrong.