9 replies to this topic

[GMO]

Hi all,

After a discussion with a leader, I wondered, how much are we still stage managing audits? Back in the early 2000s my job was seen by others and to a degree, myself as being about getting good audit results. Experience has now made me believe that's BS. I actually no longer care to a great degree about the result but I think frigging it can do terrible things for your culture. Thoughts? Am I being OTT?

[Dorothy87]

yeah now - A bit. Stuff gets sorted on the day more than it should... but I had factories with FULL orchestra  , dance and refreshments including cakes, chips, fancy sandwiches, salads but no alcohol (what a shame !  )

[Desiree Rudolph]

When I took over the Quality Manager position from QA, I decided if I was going to learn what to enforce I had to see the faults, we now have a clean as you go working team and procedures are being followed and I do at least one 'audit" a month and I walk with a board if I see you jumping to do something that should have been done, you have to explain why. I have my team walk around daily assisting and noting where training is needed. My moto is Quality is doing the right thing when nobody is watching...  Audit faults are addressed with the areas and I let them know if they were trained and dropped the ball, but I also let them know when they do well and that it was all them for following procedures.  Now we are certified I am confident that we can get a walk in and be fine.

I hope my approach helps others.

[Setanta]

I recently moved to a new company, starting up a new operation. For our 1st certifying audit, we did more of the "Stuff gets sorted on the day more than it should" but usually I send someone (or several someone's) to "walk in front to prevent sillies" kind of QA/SQF practitioner.

Edited by Setanta, 14 November 2024 - 01:14 PM.

[GMO]

Thanks all.

It was full marching band with an audit we had. Truly bonkers.

But the thing which upset me was the attitude. The belief that was just how you do that kind of stuff. But it's really only one step away from lying to me. Lying to the auditor, to the customers but most of all to yourself. You're kidding yourself that you're better than you are. So there's no burning platform to fix the problems, until there really is...

[GMO]

Now we are certified I am confident that we can get a walk in and be fine.
I hope my approach helps others.

It sounds great but also implies a level of manning and engagement to achieve I can only dream of.

[jfrey123]

Back when I was consulting with one of my best friends, there was a song and dance to helping our clients get through their audits with a LOT of us pointing out problems 6 months in advance.  Whether they had the fixes in place the day of the audit was up to them, but it was our job to help finesse and guide, which sometimes included an uncomfortable amount of "go make sure the warehouse/production/whoever is ready for the walkthrough" or "go double check your files."

 

He and I both now work for the same corp managing programs over 9 various sites.  We're confident none of our sites will flat out fail, there is a bit of prep leading into the audit to help younger/less seasoned QA staff at these plants understand what to look for in their own program reviews.  But the day of it, our attitude is that they made their bed and now must lay in it.  Our pre-made appetizer plant handling meat just got a 96 on an unannounced SQF, QA manager was promoted up to the role less than a year ago, and we're pretty proud of her.  One of our fresh fruit/veg plants started a planned SQF audit today where my friend is sitting in, says they're doing well so far.

[Tony-C]

Great topic GMO 

 

A decent auditor will sniff out ‘stage management’ from the get go and in my view that will actually mean it is counter-productive. Might work with a less capable/experienced auditor. I've had 5 people accompany me on the site tour element of an audit - You just know what they are trying to do! and they failed miserably.

 

I’m of the view that everyone needs to be on their toes to prevent ‘sillies’ so communication of the audit beforehand or auditor arrival for an unannounced audit is important.

 

I always get in early and do a quick walk-around before any audit but I think that is something management should do on a regular basis anyway.

 

I do think providing a decent buffet lunch and refreshments is worth a few points (and I don't mean a full blown trip to a pub or restaurant).

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[ChristinaK]

I don't believe I've done a full song-and-dance routine, but I am very familiar with sending someone out to prevent the sillies. Sometimes folks on the production floor get too nervous about an auditor coming their way that they will forget to do a normal part of their job (like how to check the metal detector), and there's nothing you can do to stop that from happening day-of. But it's usually just a quick sweep through the area to make sure nothing too extraordinary has happened.

[GMO]

Great topic GMO 

 

A decent auditor will sniff out ‘stage management’ from the get go and in my view that will actually mean it is counter-productive. Might work with a less capable/experienced auditor. 

 

I would have said the same.  But... This place is VERY good at it.  They have essentially got really good at lying.  Even to themselves.  It isn't high risk manufacturing so there is a certain level and standard you don't quite expect and having been to a lot of ambient sites, first impressions are good.  Well lit, mostly clean.  And the site is so enormous it's hard to keep track of where you've been.

 

We had a VERY experienced AIB auditor come in, the kind you'd ask back for training not the ones with 3 years experience in food.  He didn't detect it.  There were some howlers I can't share here that would have caused us to fail.  We got 100% on that section.  

 

I've never experienced anything in my life so bizarre!  They are so slick at presentation but absolutely appalling at fixing anything.