8 replies to this topic

[jbjurman]

Hello,

 

I am validating a cook/chill process for soup, and we are inactivating Clostridium botulinum by heating it up to 93C for 5 minutes. It then gets bagged and chilled to 3C within a couple hours.

 

Since target pathogens have been inactivated by at least 6-log, and stored below propagation temps, how long can I reasonably hold the product for? 

[GMO]

What do you mean "hold for"?  As in shelf life?  Hot hold?  Cooling time?  

[G M]

What you will often find is that quality becomes the limiting factor after a lethality treatment.  Many spoilage organisms are more hardy than pathogens, and survive the safety-oriented cook process.  How long your shelf life is will be highly variable, depending on your product and what loss of quality to slow growing spoilage organisms you deem acceptable.

[GMO]

What you will often find is that quality becomes the limiting factor after a lethality treatment.  Many spoilage organisms are more hardy than pathogens, and survive the safety-oriented cook process.  How long your shelf life is will be highly variable, depending on your product and what loss of quality to slow growing spoilage organisms you deem acceptable.

 

Hmm.  Not sure I'd call C Bot irrelevant here though.  And depending on the potential for post process contamination, Lm could be too.

[G M]

Hmm.  Not sure I'd call C Bot irrelevant here though.  And depending on the potential for post process contamination, Lm could be too.

 

I'm relatively certain the acceptable amount of pathogenic botulinum and monocytogenes is zero.

[jbjurman]

Thanks for the information. I'm trying to determine how long we can hold the finished soups at < 3C. Post-process contamination is definitely possible at the bagging step, but by filling bags at 75-85C should inactivate non-spore formers like Lm within seconds. We would also be doing organoleptic tests at regular intervals.

 

Would it be worthwhile to test for spoilage organisms and pathogens at intervals? Let me know if this train of thought is incorrect.

Edited by jbjurman, 17 April 2025 - 09:07 PM.

[kingstudruler1]

Its really impossible for most of use to even guess.   

 

My best advise to you is to find a food processing expert / processing authority.    https://www.afdo.org...s/fpa/results/?   

 

You can share with them your formula(s) (because it matters), etc.   They will be able to point you to a possible starting point as well as a test schedule to determine and validate the the shelf life.  

[GMO]

I'm relatively certain the acceptable amount of pathogenic botulinum and monocytogenes is zero.

 

I wasn't saying it wasn't... But it doesn't mean it could not be present from time to time.  Hence shelf life controls.  

[GMO]

Thanks for the information. I'm trying to determine how long we can hold the finished soups at < 3C. Post-process contamination is definitely possible at the bagging step, but by filling bags at 75-85C should inactivate non-spore formers like Lm within seconds. We would also be doing organoleptic tests at regular intervals.

 

Would it be worthwhile to test for spoilage organisms and pathogens at intervals? Let me know if this train of thought is incorrect.

 

The fact it's <3 will be helpful for C Bot.  But can you be sure it's held at <3 beyond your supply chain?  What do you mean "hold for" and why would you be holding for a long time?