12 replies to this topic

[jamesgibb]

Just to re-start this thread,

I'm currently in between a stage 1 and stage 2 certification audit of a transportation firm against ISO22000.

having conducted the stage 1 audit I am happy with the clients analysis whch confirms that they have no CCPs.

They do however only transport palletised boxed stable foodstuffs direct from a customer to their customers with no warehousing.

If anyone can think of an area which may be a CCP I'd be interested to hear as the main risk I can identify is cross contamination from the previous cargo (chemicals/waste?) but as they have a cleaning regieme after each delivery and they delibrately plan vehicles so that there is no direct chemical - food transfers I'm left thinking the main risk now is the competency of the drivers and I don't see how you can make this a CCP as there is no measurable critical limit

Any comments would be much appreciated

James

[Simon]

Hi James, I split your question off from the "No CCP" thread so as to give it better prominence.

Regards,
Simon

[Simon]

Have you ever seen this article before James?

Transportation: The Squeaky Wheel

Interesting and could be food for thought.

Regards,
Simon

[YongYM]

Simon Posted Today, 05:51 AM
Have you ever seen this article before James?

Transportation: The Squeaky Wheel

Hello Simon: Thank you for the interesting article!
********************************************************************************
Dear James:

With the article posted by Simon, I think you may need to be more thorough with the hazard analysis. Do you agree?

Edited by Simon, 01 February 2007 - 09:24 PM.

[jamesgibb]

Thanks for the info guys,

looking through the report most of it is not applicable to the company i'm auditing as they only deal with finished products not steps in the production chain.

I'll check with them about the fungicide on pallets but I think all pallets are provided by the customer pre-wrapped

The company follow the guidelines laid out:

(1) a product compatibility matrix; - There's is very simple, they only ship full loads so if they go to a food customer that's it for the load.
(2) a system for hazard classification; - They have conducted the hazard identification required by ISO22000:2005
(3) preventive measures; - Their drivers handbook includes the rules for cleaning of vehicles, "technical works" on the vehicles (fuelling etc) and handling of foods.

I'mvery mindful of not going down the "the more CCPs the better" approach of some consultants and auditors. I expect to see an efficient system because an efficient system is more likely to be followed

Cheers

James

[Simon]

Thanks for the info guys,

looking through the report most of it is not applicable to the company i'm auditing as they only deal with finished products not steps in the production chain.

I'll check with them about the fungicide on pallets but I think all pallets are provided by the customer pre-wrapped

The company follow the guidelines laid out:

(1) a product compatibility matrix; - There's is very simple, they only ship full loads so if they go to a food customer that's it for the load.
(2) a system for hazard classification; - They have conducted the hazard identification required by ISO22000:2005
(3) preventive measures; - Their drivers handbook includes the rules for cleaning of vehicles, "technical works" on the vehicles (fuelling etc) and handling of foods.

I'mvery mindful of not going down the "the more CCPs the better" approach of some consultants and auditors. I expect to see an efficient system because an efficient system is more likely to be followed

Cheers

James

No point in making a mountain out of a molehill James, it sounds like a doddle of a job. Only full loads, all foodstuffs, customer to customer, no warehousing. I'm guessing the drivers are clean and polite and don't honk their horns at dollies in the summer.

I think no CCP's

Seriously it is interesting a transport company has gone for ISO 22000. Are they UK? Who is drivng customers or is it a marketing excersise?

Regards,
Simon

[jamesgibb]

Simon,

The company is in Germany.

Their Customers wanted them to get HACCP but our office sold 22K to them so it's mainly for marketing (we're better than our customers at food safety)


I'll let you know how it goes

James

[Charles.C]

Dear James,

Interesting query.

I noticed this vaguely relevant link while browsing which I guess is a more simplified appraisal than the one you are referring however it comes up with the same result 0 CCP (not that I personally like this result, usually implies that something has been missed )

http://www.kedc.org/.....Gordon ID.pdf
(prob. needs to be saved first - slow)

Note - The location of company is E.Bernstadt which linked me to yr German comment but I soon realised that this was yet another mis-direction.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

The link Charles posted (good digging mate ) prompted me to wonder whether temperature control could an issue. I don't believe it is specifically mentioned in the above discussions. Although I can't begin to imagine you overlooked it.

Simon

[jamesgibb]

Simon,

They transport no food products which require temperature controls (although they do transport organic peroxides in refrigerated containers http://en.wikipedia....ganic_peroxide)

James

Edited by jamesgibb, 08 February 2007 - 05:53 PM.

[Simon]

Simon,

They transport no food products which require temperature controls (although they do transport organic peroxides in refrigerated containers http://en.wikipedia....ganic_peroxide)

James

Hi James, I was gonna ask you what Organic Peroxide was until I saw the Wiki link, but nothing there, so I have to ask???

[jamesgibb]

Hi James, I was gonna ask you what Organic Peroxide was until I saw the Wiki link, but nothing there, so I have to ask???

Simon

organic peroxides are highly flammable, explosive materials, often powerful and volatile. As little as 5 milligrams of diethyl ether peroxide can shatter glass chemical apparatuses. Organic peroxides, like their inorganic counterparts, are powerful bleaching agents.

If they get hot they tend to go boom!

James

[Charles.C]

Dear James,

I would have thought that the explosive angle might have justified CCP on temperature (particularly if I was the truck driver!) but perhaps it escapes into the "Prerequisite Section??" Questionable IMO (perhaps analogous to cooking conditions in food processing). I presume they had data showing no accidents had occurred.

Rgds Charles.C