7 replies to this topic

[Erasmo]

A big difference

ISO-15161:2001

The concept of corrective action in the HACCP method describes the processing of nonconforming products and the nonconformities and the correction of the situation. The concept of corrective action in ISO 9001 (or any management system) is based on searching for causes in such a way as to perpetuate the elimination of the problem at the source of the nonconformity.

That’s why in one of the first drafts of the standard, we see this:

ISO/DIS 22000 (2004) (Draft International Standard)

7.6.5 Actions when monitoring results exceed critical limits

Planned corrective actions and corrections to be taken when critical limits are exceeded shall be specified in the HACCP plan.

Now, in the final draft….

ISO-22000:2005 (International Standard)

7.6.5 Actions when monitoring results exceed critical limits

Planned corrections and corrective actions to be taken when critical limits are exceeded shall be specified in the HACCP plan.

A corrective action could not be planned…. You never know what the root cause of a new problem is.

Saludos!

[Charles.C]

Dear Erasmo,

You are not an auditor by any chance ? My head is spinning

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

Now, in the final draft….

ISO-22000:2005 (International Standard)

7.6.5 Actions when monitoring results exceed critical limits

Planned corrections and corrective actions to be taken when critical limits are exceeded shall be specified in the HACCP plan.

A corrective action could not be planned…. You never know what the root cause of a new problem is.

Saludos!

Hi Erasmo, Don't you just love ISO speak? Maybe they mean the process of taking corrective action and corrections should be planned rather than the actual detail of the corrective action / correction pre incident.

Saludos!

[Erasmo]

Hi Erasmo, Don't you just love ISO speak? Maybe they mean the process of taking corrective action and corrections should be planned rather than the actual detail of the corrective action / correction pre incident.

Saludos!

Well. Now I'm not really sure. A direct translation in Spanish denotes a big difference.

Saludos!

[Jahanzeb]

I join hands with Erasmo.

If we consider the section 7.6.5 first para, we may say that it includes the planning of how the corrections and corrective actions should be taken. But if we join it with 7.5 (d) and 7.6.1(e) it leads to documenting the corrections and corrective actions on the OPRPs and HACCP plan.

This seems more appropriate with the strategic risk management approach that we know all the possible hazards and their control measures alongwith their possible errors and their remedial actions. It is an established practice in case of HACCP system. But when it comes to corrective actions, the requirements stated are more of management system than of risk management.

In my opinion, this is one of the area where standard needs more refinement.

Regards.

Jahanzeb

[mind over matter]

A big difference

ISO-15161:2001

The concept of corrective action in the HACCP method describes the processing of nonconforming products and the nonconformities and the correction of the situation. The concept of corrective action in ISO 9001 (or any management system) is based on searching for causes in such a way as to perpetuate the elimination of the problem at the source of the nonconformity.

That’s why in one of the first drafts of the standard, we see this:

ISO/DIS 22000 (2004) (Draft International Standard)

7.6.5 Actions when monitoring results exceed critical limits

Planned corrective actions and corrections to be taken when critical limits are exceeded shall be specified in the HACCP plan.

Now, in the final draft….

ISO-22000:2005 (International Standard)

7.6.5 Actions when monitoring results exceed critical limits

Planned corrections and corrective actions to be taken when critical limits are exceeded shall be specified in the HACCP plan.

A corrective action could not be planned…. You never know what the root cause of a new problem is.

Saludos!

I think corrective action(s) on failure to meet required critical limits for a critical control point can be planned, IMO.

[APPAJI]

Dear Charles, Simon and Erasmo,
I do agree there is lot of confusion . As per Codex HACCP we are to take planned steps which corrects the product under question and also rectify the operation so that we get safe food then on-wards, as explained by every one now this corrective action is different from the concept of Correction and corrective actions as asked by ISO9001 which asks us to identify the reasons for the fault and eliminate that to get conforming products in future. To harmonize both the requirements we have present situations how to address. To come out of it I say taking action on the product is correction while taking actions on the operation to get safe food further is corrective action. Can we conclude in this way?
Regards
Appaji

[mind over matter]

In my opinion, HACCP or ISO 22000 enables you to plan corrective action through Procedures, SOP, etc. In case you exceeded critical limit, you can take appropriate action systematically and without panic by simply following respective procedure or SOP.