5 replies to this topic

[kmk1958]

:) Just wanted to throw this out there after these questions came up at one of our management review meetings. Is our current ISO program of any value to the company? How do we measure its value? Why do we not see ISO improving our processes?(We are by the way ISO 9001:2000 certified)

As the QMR, my feelings about ISO are that ISO is more of a system to ensure "Business Continuity", if you will, rather than an improvement tool in itself. By Business Continuity I mean that you have a process in place that operates under a standard. ISO ensures that you operate under that standard CONTINUOUSLY. It really isn't directly used for making improvements. What it does do is drive other improvement process that are in place such as KT analysis, Six Sigma, Value Stream Mapping, LEAN Manufacturing, etc. to help us continuously improve.

Comments?

[Simon]

Hi Kenneth,

Welcome to forums.

ISO 9001 requires you to define your key business processes, their inputs, outputs, aims, measures etc. but the standard can't improve the processes, only you can do that with hard work, co-operation and some of the improvement tools you mention.

Easy opportunities for improvement lie in the places where processes interact and this is usually a good place to start.

You know the murky pond where there's not enough communication or understanding and a great deal of frustration is allowed to fester. I know it's basic but it's often neglected. Tell process A and B they are now a supplier and customer and get them to sit down regularly together in minuted meetings. Initially this would be to discuss and remove their frustrations, then to define requirements, objectives and measures of performance.

I wonder is ISO 9001:2000 Certification a requirement of your industry / customers? If so there's a benefit. On the other hand without ISO 9000:2000 would you run your business completely ad-hoc and without any systems. Somehow I doubt it. You'd probably do most of the things just because they are good practice.

Have you taken a look at ISO 9004? It's got some good stuff in it. You can use it to build upon and improve your ISO 9001 system.

Simply achieving an ISO 9001:2000 certificate will never be enough to improve your business. It's only a useful foundation but foundations are very important.

Regards,
Simon

[Bonno]

We have begun to ask our customers whether they feel that being ISO 9000 certificated is a requirement for us to continue to do business with them. The answers so far that have returned show NO!

ISO 14001 accreditation is also not 'needed' (thanks a lot....sleepless nights & long hours for nothing) although BRC is a requirement (this is probably because they have to be BRC certificated and "suppliers being certificated to BRC" is regarded as a requirement).


Don't get me wrong, we would still maintain a QMS and an EMS, but won't need to bother with the expensive certificates.
The benefits from working to these systems are clear, but I find that too many companies are more concerned about their certificate and doing enough to keep it, instead of working with the ISO principles to make their company operate better.



Cheers,
Bonno

[Wallace Tait]

We have begun to ask our customers whether they feel that being ISO 9000 certificated is a requirement for us to continue to do business with them. The answers so far that have returned show NO!

ISO 14001 accreditation is also not 'needed' (thanks a lot....sleepless nights & long hours for nothing) although BRC is a requirement (this is probably because they have to be BRC certificated and "suppliers being certificated to BRC" is regarded as a requirement).


Don't get me wrong, we would still maintain a QMS and an EMS, but won't need to bother with the expensive certificates.
The benefits from working to these systems are clear, but I find that too many companies are more concerned about their certificate and doing enough to keep it, instead of working with the ISO principles to make their company operate better.



Cheers,
Bonno

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Bonno.
Wallace.

Edited by Wallace Tait, 15 October 2004 - 08:18 PM.

[Jim Wade]

"ISO 9001 requires you to define your key business processes, their inputs, outputs..."

Simon, it would be logical and helpful if ISO 9001 - having pointed out in its preamble that processes are "managed in order to enable the transformation of inputs into outputs" - then went on to require that those inputs and outputs be defined.

But curiously it doesn't. It merely hints at such things by requiring us to "determine the sequence and interaction" of processes and to give a "description of [their] interaction..."

Result: many (I bet most) ISO 9001 registered organisations have systems which do not identify process I/Os.

But never mind - they have a nice certificate and that's the main thing!

rgds Jim

[Simon]

Result: many (I bet most) ISO 9001 registered organisations have systems which do not identify process I/Os.

But never mind - they have a nice certificate and that's the main thing!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The force is strong today - oh cynical one.

Regards,
Simon