30 replies to this topic

[hiran]

Dear all,

I have completed my graduation in Food Processing Technology from Osmania University, Hyderabad, India, this year.

I am looking for a job in Production wing. I am very confident that my academic background will definately impress the recruiter but I could not locate any oppurtunity.The local companies cannot afford to take an Engineering graduate as they cant provide a good position/pay.And the recruitment in Big companies is mostly through referral.So i ve chosen this forum to help me in locating a good oppurtunitY.

I sincerely welcome your suggestions.

Thank you.

[cazyncymru]

Dear all,

I have completed my graduation in Food Processing Technology from Osmania University, Hyderabad, India, this year.

I am looking for a job in Production wing. I am very confident that my academic background will definately impress the recruiter but I could not locate any oppurtunity.The local companies cannot afford to take an Engineering graduate as they cant provide a good position/pay.And the recruitment in Big companies is mostly through referral.So i ve chosen this forum to help me in locating a good oppurtunitY.

I sincerely welcome your suggestions.

Thank you.

Hiran

I fear you have falling into the "graduate trap"

No matter how impressive your academic qualifications are, a potential employer will want to see what experiences you have. and to get that you need a job!!

Even if you are better qualified that the CEO you'll have to be prepared to start at the bottom.

I'm currently doing a Food Technology degree as a part time student. There are students on my course who think they are going to walk into a 30K a year job at the end of it. Little do they realise that they'll be lucky to get jobs in a laboratory or as a technologist at less than half of that. I'll admit that im on more than 30K, but I have worked in industry for 20 years, covering a multitude of roles, including a group position (all work, no glamour!)

Unless your really, really lucky, you need to start at the bottom Hiran.

C x

[Simon]

I can only echo what Caz says. Business exist to make profit and in most cases employees are seen as a cost. A number on a spreadsheet. If you can add visible value to an organisation such as in a sales role this often commands a higher salary. Rightly or wrongly food safety or quality systems people are perceived as an overhead, a necessary evil. So therefore their salaries are often lower.

In any job it's a combination of knowledge, experience and attitude that matters; if you don't possess all three then you need to work at getting them and that takes time.

You are much more likely to get a higher starting salary and opportunities for progression / promotion and salary increases in a larger organisation and you must be prepared to relocate.

I'm a graduate and I'm still poor.

Regards,
Simon

[Charles.C]

Dear Cazx,

Does yr Food Technology course include a few freebie credit courses - I would suggest Lap-Dancing for the highlyfinancially oriented, well proven in the movie industry I believe.

I think you are being a little pessimistic in yr advice in that the opportunity depends sometimes on the particular situation. I remember once being offered a small fortune to take mineral samples and analyse them for precious metals in a remote area. I reluctantly declined after finding out that the previous person responsible resigned after experiencing a spear through his leg.

Rgds / Charles.C

[cazyncymru]

Dear Cazx,

Does yr Food Technology course include a few freebie credit courses - I would suggest Lap-Dancing for the highlyfinancially oriented, well proven in the movie industry I believe.

I think you are being a little pessimistic in yr advice in that the opportunity depends sometimes on the particular situation. I remember once being offered a small fortune to take mineral samples and analyse them for precious metals in a remote area. I reluctantly declined after finding out that the previous person responsible resigned after experiencing a spear through his leg.

Rgds / Charles.C

Actually i did have some freebie credits .... i didn't have to do quite a number of units due to already having completed work based courses such as HACCP, Labelling, Food Hygiene, Auditing.

Maybe i was harsh, but you have to be realistic:

I'd prefer to employ someone with no qualifications, but with experience rather than the other way around.
If a piece of kit was to break down, thus holding up production, or contributing to a potential food safety issue, there's not much point in knowing the theory behind it, if you can't do the practicalities.

[Simon]

Actually i did have some freebie credits .... i didn't have to do quite a number of units due to already having completed work based courses such as HACCP, Labelling, Food Hygiene, Auditing.

Maybe i was harsh, but you have to be realistic:

I'd prefer to employ someone with no qualifications, but with experience rather than the other way around.
If a piece of kit was to break down, thus holding up production, or contributing to a potential food safety issue, there's not much point in knowing the theory behind it, if you can't do the practicalities.

I tend to go for someone who looks good and laughs at my jokes. Kind of restricts the number of applicants. No seriously I would say 10% qualifications, 40% experience and 50% attitude and personal characterisitcs. I think I can get quite a good handle on a persons attitude and personal characterisitcs quite quickly. Probably not good practice to do this, but I can't help it. I'm an INTJ.

[cazyncymru]

I tend to go for someone who looks good and laughs at my jokes. Kind of restricts the number of applicants. No seriously I would say 10% qualifications, 40% experience and 50% attitude and personal characterisitcs. I think I can get quite a good handle on a persons attitude and personal characterisitcs quite quickly. Probably not good practice to do this, but I can't help it. I'm an INTJ.

INTJ????

[suemal]

Hi
I did a honours degree in food safety part time whilst employed as a QA technician, and to be honest with you I learnt more from my work experience than what I did through my course!!! as i had experience in the industry then graduated with a 1st i managed a couple of years later to get a good job and paid well!!!
but if i was to employ a new member to the technical team today i would definately go for some with the experience rather than someone with a degree & no experience...sorry i hope i dont offend anyone, this is just my opinion of what id be looking for!!

[Simon]

INTJ????

Myers Briggs - put it in google.

Hi
I did a honours degree in food safety part time whilst employed as a QA technician, and to be honest with you I learnt more from my work experience than what I did through my course!!! as i had experience in the industry then graduated with a 1st i managed a couple of years later to get a good job and paid well!!!
but if i was to employ a new member to the technical team today i would definately go for some with the experience rather than someone with a degree & no experience...sorry i hope i dont offend anyone, this is just my opinion of what id be looking for!!

Done apologies Suemal, if your opinion offends anyone - tough!!!

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

Realistic maybe but this thread is not looking too hopeful for new graduates.
Surely depends also on the available supply and how interested / competent the company is in training people up (admittedly they may not stay long having reached that point). Just like football.

The original post from an engineer was I think more facing the problem that local companies were simply not prepared to pay for anyone with qualifications. This is perhaps less of a problem in the "developed" world though again I suspect it is case-by-case again (thinking of car repairers) Similarly I think I would prefer to believe that the bridge I am travelling over was (had to be ?) designed by someone with some proof of formal training although added experience credentials would certainly be additionally assuring (validation / verification ??).

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jean]

My suggestion to new graduates will be is to look for an industry or work suitable for them and try to learn the job and gain experience before looking for positions and higher pay scales. My first job was with a low pay and I had no worries about it. All I longed was to learn as much as I can and then fetch for better ones. This is my advice to all new graduates. One should be willing to learn with passion and grow in a slow phase from the bottom line onwards with all the foundations. (No offence please)

[cazyncymru]

Hi
I did a honours degree in food safety part time whilst employed as a QA technician, and to be honest with you I learnt more from my work experience than what I did through my course!!! as i had experience in the industry then graduated with a 1st i managed a couple of years later to get a good job and paid well!!!
but if i was to employ a new member to the technical team today i would definately go for some with the experience rather than someone with a degree & no experience...sorry i hope i dont offend anyone, this is just my opinion of what id be looking for!!

Hi Sue

I have a similar experience to you.
I've worked in the Dairy Industry for 20 years, the last 5 or so as a senior manager in varying quality roles, and i've only just got my honors degree in Food Technology.

I doubt it will make any difference to my employment prospects, but hell its a great cherry to have on my cake!

I'm with you on empolyment too, in fact my criteria tends to be middle aged people who have commitments (ie mortgages and families)

C x

[rita]

Hi!

I'm with you on empolyment too, in fact my criteria tends to be middle aged people who have commitments (ie mortgages and families)

I have a question how are these people getting the experience after their graduation...for sure they were new graduates long time ago....and they were given a chance to get employed and learn the job and hence they get the experience.

I had graduated 2 years back and got in a company last year as a trainee. I wouldnt say a fresher has to get a high paid position or job, but should be given a chance to learn and get experience.

Hope I have not offended anyone.

regards

rita

[GMO]

Simon - I'm INTJ or INTP depending on mood. I should start another threat - I suspect there are a lot of I's in quality but it might even attract a very particular personality type.

My background is Chemistry and to be honest part of me thinks I want to go back and retrain but at the same time, I suspect it would be for personal pride first and foremost.

On getting into food industry; in some countries there is a big shortage of people trained in food technical, production and engineering, however, having recently been looking for jobs, I can testify that since April there has been a huge reduction in jobs in the UK and a large (approx £5k) reduction in salaries. In the UK, people are trying to get away with not recruiting if they can. It might be better in the current, difficult worldwide climate to get a job in the field you want to work in and get experience and then worry about the pay. Trust me, no-one recruits production managers without experience unless they're soft in the head. Get some experience, even if it's on the line. If you're good and switched on, you'll work your way up in no time (I am always poaching good operators!)

[cazyncymru]

Hi!



I have a question how are these people getting the experience after their graduation...for sure they were new graduates long time ago....and they were given a chance to get employed and learn the job and hence they get the experience.

I had graduated 2 years back and got in a company last year as a trainee. I wouldnt say a fresher has to get a high paid position or job, but should be given a chance to learn and get experience.

Hope I have not offended anyone.

regards

rita

Rita

There is a reasoning behind my criteria

As a Quality Manager, with a small team, i can ill afford the time or expense of training someone to do a job, when their intention is to leave after a year or so, and that they have used the job just to have something on their CV as work experience. some of this work maybe quite specialized tasks and will also need training from an external body. Unfortunately this has happened so many times to me that i subconciously file graduates CV's on a maybe pile!

One of the things that worried me as i did my degree ( i started in a lab 20 years ago,worked my way up and have only just done my degree) is that the graduates were misled in that they can walk out of uni after finishing and walk into a job such as a QA Manager or a job that pays 30K + a year. Now we all know this isn't going to happen. Graduates should not differentiated at the commencement of any employment, but they may be earmarked for further development IF they prove themselves.

as a new graduate you have to realistic, and this may involve taking a lower paid job just to be able to establish yourself.

sorry to be blunt, but thats life unfortuately!

[GMO]

Very true Caz - quality auditors with experience are gold dust. Graduate schemes are a way in, Northern and Kerry are always on the lookout for food grads. I only got considered for QA management after I bit the bullet and worked as a shift production manager after a grad scheme (and they only accepted me for that because they were desperate!) I think you're right, grads have to accept it's hard to get into management posts and the reason is, your average grad doesn't have the skills to cut it. You just have to take the opportunities to prove you can do it. One of the best experiences I had was covering for maternity leave.

Edited by GMO, 22 June 2008 - 04:48 PM.

[rita]

as a new graduate you have to realistic, and this may involve taking a lower paid job just to be able to establish yourself.

sorry to be blunt, but thats life unfortuately!

Hi Caz,

I understand and agree to your point that new graduates should not go after positions or pay, but they should be given an opportunity to learn and gain experience.

When I have got a good opportunity in a manufacturing company as a trainee, I grabbed the opportunity without thinking about the pay scale or position. I am learning the operation in and out by observations, referring the manual and procedures and by small practical lessons from my seniors and manager. This company helped me by giving an opportunity which is my stepping stone for my career. No company can spoon feed any candidate but it is the own interest and willingness one has to take to learn the job and get the knowledge and I know that’s how we have food safety experts all over.

One of the things that worried me as i did my degree ( i started in a lab 20 years ago,worked my way up and have only just done my degree) is that the graduates were misled in that they can walk out of uni after finishing and walk into a job such as a QA Manager or a job that pays 30K + a year. Now we all know this isn't going to happen.

Everyone learns and works for living and therefore we cannot stop any person or worry that he/she is leaving the company after gaining all the knowledge and experience, its life and one may walk off to get a better living standards.

There are a lot of companies who are willing to provide training without salary and lots of graduates rushing to get in. It is up to the company to put in the contract that the person shall work for certain period of time after getting the expensive training from an external company otherwise the candidate has to pay for. We have such procedures here and the staff turnover here is very low.

[Simon]

I believe the worth of a manager or director in an organisation can be measured by the influence they have on employees. Influence comes from respect and respect is given by employees to leaders who demonstrate good leadership traits such as Honesty, Vision, Competence, Inspiration and Intelligence. These skills and knowledge take time (many years) to develop and hone. They cannot be rushed or acted out as it will become obvious they are not authentic. If your only driver is money you will not get there, if your desire is to be become a better leader you will reach your potential in time.

Regards,
Simon

[Jean]

I agree with you Simon, the respect given by the employees to an employer or manager is indeed like being successful in managing and developing their staff. Employees respect managers who are good at their jobs and who know what they are talking about.

To reach this level, it requires a lot of patience and hard work including passion towards work. There is for sure no short cut.

[GMO]

Having said that Simon, I was managing 29 people at the age of 28. I never once thought though that I knew it all. I think the (justified) objections people have with young managers is that they can forget that the 'latest initiative' is the same one the team saw 10 years ago and they also are often not trained to manage people. I fortunately had lots of training (including doing sessions with actors which was invaluable) and I always talked to people informally. There's no need to maintain a distance and a coldness when you manage and unfortunately many young people think there is.

Edited by GMO, 24 June 2008 - 11:36 AM.

[Jean]

When I was working in a junior management level, the senior or elderly staff would not pay much attention and it was with an “I am least bothered” attitude they re-acted to my advice. When I gave them training they would say in a common tone “We have been doing like this for years and so far we had no problems”, “Do you have any experience in this task” etc…it was very difficult in the beginning.

This made me to change my approach and get to hear their experiences and step into their perceptions and empathize with them and finally convey my message. I supported and motivated them wherever possible and indeed mastered self control. I was aware of my success in managing people when I had a big applause and staff cheering for my recognition award and our GM himself was impressed to see the support and respect they had for me.



IMO, one has to learn to be a good listener, control emotions and communicate and socialize well (in addition to the knowledge) to walk up the ladder for successful career.

[cazyncymru]

When I was working in a junior management level, the senior or elderly staff would not pay much attention and it was with an “I am least bothered” attitude they re-acted to my advice. When I gave them training they would say in a common tone “We have been doing like this for years and so far we had no problems”, “Do you have any experience in this task” etc…it was very difficult in the beginning.

This made me to change my approach and get to hear their experiences and step into their perceptions and empathize with them and finally convey my message. I supported and motivated them wherever possible and indeed mastered self control. I was aware of my success in managing people when I had a big applause and staff cheering for my recognition award and our GM himself was impressed to see the support and respect they had for me.



IMO, one has to learn to be a good listener, control emotions and communicate and socialize well (in addition to the knowledge) to walk up the ladder for successful career.

As a senior manager, one of my first tasks of the day is to walk the factory floor. this serves a million purposes. The main purpose is so that i can talk to the boys. Not just about work, but about their home lives. Things that may bother them. Have a laugh. They rarely try to pull the wool over my eyes as they know i have 20 years experience within the industry and no matter how serious a problem could be, that i will sit down with them and we try to work our way through it. Having this experience doesnt mean i know it all; hell i still make mistakes, but it shows them i'm human!

I don't believe in managing with a rod of iron, but by being approachable and fair. They know that if I have them in my office for them to have a rollocking then they've really disappointed me and let themselves down. My office is a last resort.

I think that I have the respect from all the staff at my old site, from the cleaners to other managers ( i have just left there) and i hope i can build the same rapport with my new team. To me it was one of the best compliments i could ever have had when an engineer with almost as much industry experience as my self, said i was by far the best manager he'd worked with, because i didn't pretend i knew what he was going on about!

Experience cannot be replaced by education. But when both are hand in hand it goes a long way to building respect.

[Simon]

Having said that Simon, I was managing 29 people at the age of 28.

Blimey I couldn't manage myself until way past thirty. That said I'm not saying nobody else is able to at a younger age. It’s just I believe like a good wine we all get better with time, that is until we start to dribble and then the only option is early retirement.

Experience cannot be replaced by education. But when both are hand in hand it goes a long way to building respect.

Here here Caz. I would just add humanity and humility (and humidity). No I'll stick with the first two.

Regards,
Simon

[althene]

hello everyone!

hmmm...this is getting to be quite a touchy touchy topic...

to hiran, i know how you feel, i graduated with honors three years ago and yes, its all a syndrome or something but fresh grads do hope for good jobs with good pay.

Realistically speaking though, what I could suggest is for you to know which job would be your stepping stone to getting that career you want. We all need to start somewhere and in an industry where there is alot of competition but very few competent individuals, you should see yourself in the competent ones. To do that, you dont have to scrape the bottom of the barrel, just make the right choices. :)

I started out as a pharmaceutical microbiologist who had to do the work of five microbiologists on other companies...then it got me a job in an international testing and accreditation laboratory which did food safety audits, both did not pay much, but i thought these were just mere stepping stones anyway so i grabbed the chance to learn and gain experience. From there, a hotel offered me a job as Hygienist at the age of 23, now at 24, I am a food safety specialist in food manufacturing with a stable salary and earning much more than my peers of the same age...see it all boils down to making good choices...and never forgetting to thank the people who have helped you along the way as well.

oh and before i forget...do equip yourself with experience as well.

so cheer up ok...and believe you'd land that job just take it slow though.

hope this helps.

[AS NUR]

DEar All...


I agree with the opinion... but remember we have to increase our knowledge.. and joint with this forum we can get more knowledge, especially about Food safety...