6 replies to this topic

[suemal]

Hi
we produce cooked meats and i would like someone to give me examples of HACCP validation & verification?
what would end micro testing come under & what about probe calibration etc etc, i always find i get confused!!

[Simon]

BUMP: Can anyone help Sue with this.

[moo73steve]

Hi Sue,

The way I describe things are:

Validation - Is what we are doing going to achieve what we want. (Normally a scientific study etc, i.e will cooking to 75 degrees C kill the pathogens of interest)

Verification - Are we achieving what we say we are doing. (Day to day montiring, i.e. are we acheiving a cook of 75 degrees C.)

Micro testing is mostly a verification step (particularly in positive release programs), but may form part of a study to prove a process (i.e. validation). If you are doing it regularly I suggest it is verification.

Calibration would be part of a support program used to ensure measuring devices are accurate for your monitoring. Monitoring would form part of a verification program also.

I hope this helps.

Steve

[rubered]

Hi

I agree with the answer Steve has given.

There can be a lot of confusion over the terms validation and verification and what they involve.

Validation considers the technical validity of the plan and basically asks 'if the plan were followed would a safe product be produced?'

verification looks at compliance with the HACCP plan in practice and asks 'has the plan been effectively implemented, and are the controls being followed in the everyday operation of the business.

It is possible to verify a technically invalid plan.

Validation activities should be targeted at the scientific and technical inputs in the plan

There are two considerations with validation, will the controls and limits applied result in safe food and can they be consistently achieved each and every time.

These questions can be answered theoretically, by challenging the teams decisions about elements of the HACCP Plan and looking for evidence of justifications for decisions being based on sound science. i.e why has a particular time/temperature combination been chosen. Evidence could come from professional bodies, historical processing data, current scientific literature, trade associations, regulations and legislation.

Alternatively by practically examining the process to test if the process is capable of achieving the necessary controls each and every time.i.e will the process achieve the necessary time/temperature combination each and every time This can be done by:
creating worst-case conditions
deliberately under processing
deliberately over processing
cooks with dataloggers establising cold/hot spots and see effects on finished products
pathogen loading
challenge testing/deliberate contamination
preditcive modelling
micro testing (to verify process is in control)

Other things to establish could be concerned with the equipment being used - is it calibrated/maintained - is it accurate and reliable. Are the necessary personnel trained and competent to carry out tasks. Is any documentation associates with the process/controls accurate, reliable and achievable?


verification checks then confirm that on a day to day basis the plan is being followed.

I hope this helps and would be interested to ready anybody elses comments.

rubered

[suemal]

Thanks, for your comments, they are a big help
Cheers

[Charles.C]

Dear Suemal,

I think you got some nice answers previously.

One reason that confusion exists between the VE/VA terms is that they tend to be interpreted somewhat differently in the HACCP field, particularly by the US. You can see this if you look at the original proposed schemes and it still can result in some twisted verbal statements in current layouts, eg "verification includes validation". I guess it does not really matter as long as you follow a consistent path.

If you wish to see some examples of validation - interpretation and application, can try this thread - http://www.ifsqn.com...?showtopic=6917

(I seem to remember the pumpkin pie download illustrates the use of microbial data)

Rgds / Charles.C

[Abdul Qudoos]

Hi
we produce cooked meats and i would like someone to give me examples of HACCP validation & verification?
what would end micro testing come under & what about probe calibration etc etc, i always find i get confused!!

The best explanation of HACCP validation and verification according to me is:
We are validating how? By planning.
We need verification - how? - By checking.

More explanation:

Validation:

• Pool of data
• Information coming form experience / folks
• Our own trials and tests performed in past
• By the source of Internet like IFSQN.com or News paper or Media / Watching on Television

Verification:

• Cross checking
• Confirmation

Now think and apply in your HACCP system!

Cheers,
Abdul Qudoos