13 replies to this topic

[Brendan]

Hello to all,

My first post - great website & an excellent discussion forum. I would welcome your input in relation to the demand for a food safety consultancy service i.e. Quality system development, supply chain control programmes / audits, GMP, HACCP, BRC, etc..., at international level.

The background to my question is, I have over 20 years experience in a Quality / Technical environment within the food industry (high risk / high care products) both at national level here in Ireland & also at international level across Europe. Now I'am considering starting my own consultancy business, but the Irish market is not so big for such a service - my particular expertise is in the area of Supply Chain inspections / audits, HACCP programme development & continous improvement initiatives at international level - is there a requirement for such a service at international level ?
Any comments are very welcome.

Brendan

[Penard]

Hello Brendan,

I can't answer about requirements - but I think it will be easier for you to have your own business in Europ because you belong to EU; as you wrote you're experienced so you know your background will be precious.

Last, welcome on ifsqn!

Unfortunately, nothing to add,

Best regards,

Emmanuel.

[Simon]

Hello Brendan, There is always room for good quality consultants. The thing is in the UK and Ireland food safety systems are very well developed and mature, so there is probably less opportunity for consultants than in the developing countries such as Indian sub-continent, Far East, Middle East and Africa. Problem is your expected daily rate would seem excessive in developing countries and also there is the travel expenses to consider. I have a friend who is a food safety consultant and he does extremely well. He is qualified to carry out BRC (food and packaging) / IFS / EFSIS / Organic audits and he subcontracts for some of the big certification bodies. The cert bodies like to subcontract as it saves the high cost of employing someone full time and there is enough in the price of an audit to split and make a nice earner each. He also does consultancy and training with some regular clients and also one-off's. He always seems busy and never charges less than £350 a day + expenses. He often charges a lot more than that.

Food for thought. Welcome to the forums Brendan.



Regards,
Simon

[Brendan]

Thank you for your warm wlecome & helpful comments. I agree that Quality systems within western Europe are well developed & the opportunities that exist in western Europe are most likely in the monitoring / auditing area as you outlined Simon regarding your friend who conducts BRC (food and packaging) / IFS / EFSIS / Organic audits. While I'am familiar with these standards, I do not have a day to day working knowledge of them. The reason being, my experience is with a multinational who produces baby food (infant formula, infant cereals, etc..)& the company operates to an internal Corporate Quality Standard (CQS), which is at a very high level, almost to pharmaceutical level - the company would view itself more as a pharmaceutical compnay rather than a food company. So, while I'am very much aware & experienced within a regulated environment, with high GMP requirements, validation, verification, etc... the specifics of the above standards (BRC,IFS,EFSIS, Organic) I'am not famiiar with - do you think it would be difficult for me to make this transition & audit such systems? What formal qualification would I need to obtain to become an approved auditor of these standards & satisfy the certification bodies re. my suitability ? My own formal qualification is a Food Science degree, with numerous quality system , SPC & management training courses over the last 20 years.

Would very much appreciate any comments - this is a potential business startup at a critical decison making time, to go & do it or not. It's scary but also exciting.

Regards,

Brendan

[cazyncymru]

Thank you for your warm wlecome & helpful comments. I agree that Quality systems within western Europe are well developed & the opportunities that exist in western Europe are most likely in the monitoring / auditing area as you outlined Simon regarding your friend who conducts BRC (food and packaging) / IFS / EFSIS / Organic audits. While I'am familiar with these standards, I do not have a day to day working knowledge of them. The reason being, my experience is with a multinational who produces baby food (infant formula, infant cereals, etc..)& the company operates to an internal Corporate Quality Standard (CQS), which is at a very high level, almost to pharmaceutical level - the company would view itself more as a pharmaceutical compnay rather than a food company. So, while I'am very much aware & experienced within a regulated environment, with high GMP requirements, validation, verification, etc... the specifics of the above standards (BRC,IFS,EFSIS, Organic) I'am not famiiar with - do you think it would be difficult for me to make this transition & audit such systems? What formal qualification would I need to obtain to become an approved auditor of these standards & satisfy the certification bodies re. my suitability ? My own formal qualification is a Food Science degree, with numerous quality system , SPC & management training courses over the last 20 years.

Would very much appreciate any comments - this is a potential business startup at a critical decison making time, to go & do it or not. It's scary but also exciting.

Regards,

Brendan

Brendan

Croeso to a fellow celt!

There are plenty of oppurtuniies for auditing and training, especially hygiene training, within the UK

The secret is to get yourself onto the books of body such as Micron or National Britannia, and with people such as Highfield.
You can still be a consultant, and charge consultant rates, but they find you the work!


Caz x

Edited by cazyncymru, 31 January 2008 - 01:58 PM.

[Brendan]

Sláinte Caz,

Is it difficult to get onto the books of such companies ?

Brendan

[Simon]

Brendan I will ask my buddy what qualifications he has. I'm speaking with him Friday.

Regards,
Simon

[Brendan]

Simon,

Thank you - that would be very helpful, much appreciated.

Brendan

[cazyncymru]

Simon,

Thank you - that would be very helpful, much appreciated.

Brendan

Brendan.....as long as you have the magic 3

Advanced Food Hygiene
Lead Auditors
And Advanced HACCP

you can do anything

Helps if you get train the trainer or a teaching cert like FETC

Probably the best way is to almost cold call them, send them your CV as their always looking for new bods.

C x

Good luck tomorrow; i fancy Ireland for the 6 nations, as long as they get past France!

[Charles.C]

Dear Brendan,

This is an opinion if entering the BRC arena from a substantially “practical” QA route with limited experience of ISO type products.

Clearly, the previous posters are correct in their laying out some basic professional necessities of getting into the consultant business. Speaking as, up till now, only a user, their recommendations also have pertinence from a knowledge aspect IMO. Not that I would wish to give too much boost to the auditing trade (many thanks guys / gals for the cool and not-so-cool arguments over the years!) but I have to reluctantly admit having learned much from their services in the good cases.

IMEX, internal company quality systems are much more user – friendly in that they are already dedicated (and often more direct) procedures which have been refined by historically good and especially bad previous experiences of predecessors. Especially true for “successful” high-end quality companies IMEX (although well-documented incidents demonstrate that even the mighty can still make massive screw-ups both conceptually and technically).

As you probably already know, basic BRC – type systems initially borrowed large chunks of the, particularly 9000, ISO management treatises and added similar extracts from HACCP and GMP (with some added specialised knowledge for more esoteric areas like packaging). Typical HACCP/GMP rounded QA personnel should find the non- ISO content demanding but not massively so IMO. Unfortunately, also IMO, ISO presentations and derivatives tend to be unrivalled in their incomprehensibility from a purely English language viewpoint. If you ever look at web forums on such topics, half the time contributed is simply translating the codicils into normal English for the bewildered. A lot of the rest is explaining what the technical expectations of the various clauses are particularly from an auditing viewpoint, eg the “should” and “shall” tricks, document control, blah blah blah (this is one unchallenged [and surely profitable ] auditing niche IMO). Of course these “tricks” vary within BRC, IFS etc and the best and quickest way if you hv funds is to do the offered courses and see the gimmicks. With yr background this will probably not require enormous technical demands (unless maybe to include specialities like BRC-IOP). If money is a critical factor, more indirect approaches involving more manouevring / personal time are usually necessary.

No direct experience but I’m sure the previous comments correct regarding significant competition in Europe. Particularly since all these standards are now presumably bread and butter items for the audit companies unlike, maybe, 10 + years ago, when expertise was limited. Simon’s comments regarding costs into Asia are also spot-on in IMEX.

Maybe you should also seriously consider ISO 22000, plenty of scope for insertion / improvement there !! (just look at this forum’s meanderings over interpretations, = enter the auditor).

Good luck and very interested to hear how you progress,

Rgds / Charles.C

[Brendan]

Hi Charles,

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will keep you posted.

Any other opinions out there ?

Brendan

[Dr. Donal Hughes]

Hi Brendan,

My name is Donal Hughes from Cong in Co.Mayo. I have had my own consultancy company AbSolutions in Ireland for the last 8 years.
I was a Ph.D. level chemist, and rather stumbled into the field of food safety, when myself and my wife returned to the west after studying in Dublin.
Though I had a good knowledge of biology and chemistry prior to working in food safety, what I would say is that any person with a good aptitude and intelligence can easily handle consultancy with BRC, EFSIS etc standards. I read everything I needed to know and taught myself the rest.

I found that after putting in the hard work with my first client on BRC, it got easier and easier after that. The modern standards such as EFSIS are simple to follow and if you get clients who are willing to co-operate to achieve the standard, thats more than half the battle. One pre-requisite (I feel to being a "great" consultant, rather than a good one) is the ability to use your computer. Clients really appreciate a consultant who can sit at a PC with them and devise an SOP, or create a good checksheet, or design a layout for a new premises.

I work mainly in the meat sector but consult to everybody from petrol station deli's to developing the Jacob Fruitfield HACCP system. I even designed 13 different food units under one roof in Drumshanbo in Leitrim. I enjoy the design and logistics side of it.

The problem I have found over the years is travelling on our now "lethal" roads. There is a vast amount of work to be done out there; if you are willing to be away from home for long periods. You need to be doing this to make good money. I am 33 now with my 4th kiddy on the way and now work mainly from home. I still act as consultant to mostly local companies aswell as the clients I have built up over the years, but rarely travel now.

I often considered myself a "busy fool" racing around the country, slaving over the computer, generating quality systems and never really making top money, though the systems I devised made the clients millions. On the flip side, I work a lot with a colleague in Health and Safety- he trains people daily for over 600 euro and is booked solid for 2 months. The key is, he has no family and is ready to travel at the drop of a hat.

I have come to realize that to make a living in the food safety consultancy business, we have to learn from our clients- and start "selling".
For my part, I now make a good living, without doing the miles by doing more "selling" like

my own range of chemicals
Preparing HACCP systems, signage and checkbooks for other consultants
Calibrations
% agreements with temperature monitoring companies for referred business
% agreements with contractors on buildings I design etc etcI hope this helps a little.

Feel free to give a shout anytime for a chat, if you think it might be useful.

Regards,
Donal

Dr. Donal Hughes 087-2029040.

[bibi]

hi donal

your situation seem a bit depressing but honest, do you believe in the luky consultant who can impresse straight forward, but also can not delivered. This forum has a lot of consultants!!!
please any comments.

bibi

[Simon]

@ Brendan. Below is a link to a PDF on the BRC website showing competence requirements for BRC Food Auditors:

BRC Food Auditor Competence (qualifications, training and experience)

Hope this helps.

Simon