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Quality of Food & Safety of Food?


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Zeeshan

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 12:37 PM

Before going to my confusion following background will help to clearly understand my question:

My expertise are mainly in ISO 9001. I have given the task by my company to establish a department "System Development and Compliance" and start documentation in coordination with a Food Technologist. Now comes to my question:

I have learnt from ISO 9001:2000 that it can be applied on any type of organization. So why a need arise to develop a separate standard for Food Industry. I know that ISO 9001 covers the Quality issues and ISO 22K covers the Food Safety issues but it hard to digest that why food safety is not considered to be a part of overall quality of food. Whether quality of food and safety of food are two separate things. If yes, while documentation of both ISO 9001 & 22K what is the scope of using both the terms. If no, whether ISO 22K covers only one quality issue of food - food safety or all. If it covers all quality issues of food then whether we need to work on ISO 9001 requirements too.


Please :helpplease: me out of this fuss.


Regards:

Zeeshan



Simon

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:56 AM

Cany anybody help Zeeshan out of his pickle?


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Charles.C

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 06:20 PM

Dear Zeeshan ,

Not familiar with the deep philosophy of ISO 9000 but hopefully this may prompt some more enlightened users to jump in.

“Quality” as I’m sure you know has a myriad of definitions –

Eg ISO 9k - "Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality

Another Wiki develops this into the (rather cynical perhaps?) comment –

"ISO 9001 certification does not guarantee that the company delivers products of superior (or even decent) quality. It just certifies that the company engages internally in paperwork prescribed by the standard. Indeed, some companies enter the ISO 9001 certification as a marketing tool."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000

Nonetheless, the top definition appears to offer the potential to include safety, I can only assume that this option was unilaterally decided to be not required to be taken up from an auditing viewpoint ??? Anyone ?

I would also imagine that the proponents of ISO 22000 hope to avoid an assessment as per the second wiki, particularly as food safety is of its essence. Whether or not such an objective has been achieved is not yet obvious, too early to say maybe.

As you may know, HACCP in it’s original form was occasionally also targeted at food hazards related to “Quality” which was interpreted as a combination of safety, wholesomeness and economic characteristics. The subsequent focus on safety was a pragmatic prioritisation.

Returning to yr query on the interaction between ISO 9000, ISO22000, (and HACCP of course :smile: ) , I extracted this –

"The working group that developed ISO 22000 intended that ISO 22000 would not replace ISO 9001. Instead, they intended that a food processor use both standards: ISO 22000 to address a food safety management system (FSMS) and ISO 9001 to address a quality management system. Both standards are compatible and have similar structures.
ISO has a unique format when compared to both the U.S. definition of HACCP, developed by the National Advisory Committee on the Microbiological Criteria for Foods (NACMCF), or the CODEX definition of HACCP. NACMCF and CODEX wrote their standards as guidance standards. These standards describe how a food processor can implement HACCP. ISO 22000 is written in auditable form so it can be used as a tool to develop audit plans for either internal audits or third party audits."
Attached File  sk1.htm   55.81KB   103 downloads

There is a detailed clause comparison of the various content of 9k / 22k in the iso 22k standard of course.

Hopefully of some initial help.

Rgds / Charles.C


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Zeeshan

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 01:06 PM

Dear Charles
Thank you for your reply. At least you and Simon have some sympathy to give my question some consideration otherwise I was thinking that no body will answer me to my query.
Your answer give me a new direction to read ISO 9K and 22K again. I come to following conclusions:
1-Although food safety is one of the aspect of Quality of product, we need comprehensive well defined requirements to achieve, maintain and improve the safety condition of food product.
2- ISO 9K covers all activities that affect the quality of product (not necessarily including the safety of product. For example maintaining the sizes of the pouches of food, ensuring the timely delivery of product to customer.)

Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Regards.

Zeeshan



Charles.C

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 10:50 AM

Dear Zeeshan,

I hv done a little more searching on yr query. The links below are probably all pre-ISO 22000
but still of interest hopefully.

1. (date ??)

How does HACCP relate to ISO 9000?
People are often confused about this, and you can often hear such comments as : “HACCP is just ISO 9000 for a food company”.
HACCP is simply one of the technical aspects of producing a quality food product and complying with legal requirements. As such, it is part of the overall ISO 9001 requirements. However, HACCP is concerned strictly with the safety of the consumer, nothing more. It is geared towards preventing physical, microbiological and chemical contamination of the product to a degree that you are very confident that the consumer will suffer no illness or injury.
HACCP is not concerned with more general aspects of quality that could result in loss of customers, such as late deliveries, mistakes in orders delivered, discourteous staff, or failure to give adequate technical backup service. All of these will rapidly lose customers but will not cause injury or sickness to the consumer.
For an ISO 9000 food company HACCP must be addressed primarily as part of the process control activities. It should not have a separate existence from the general management procedures. If you have a ‘HACCP Manual’ sitting on a shelf, waiting to be dusted down before the next customer audit, then you have not integrated your HACCP controls into your day-do-day activities, and it is just a paper exercise.
The controls and monitoring activities listed in your HACCP plan should be incorporated into your ISO 9000 procedures and circulated for constant use and reference.

http://www.seaverass...es/page0013.htm
Note that other threads regarding combining HACCP and ISO 9000 exist on this forum (somewhere :smile: ).

2. (2001)

The ISO 9000 has distinctive criteria to be incorporated with HACCP because it sets out the methods that can be implemented to an organization to assure that the customer’s requirements are fully met. At the international level, the Western is an example of combining the ISO 9000 with HACCP plan that is known as SQF2000.

http://www.mima.gov....f/zmz/haccp.pdf.

Note that there is at least one thread on SQF2000 on this forum with link to free dwl copy of standard. Maybe worth a look.

3. (2002)

ISO 9000 focuses on customer needs and expectations, and one of the most important
customer expectations is to have safe food products. Applying HACCP within an ISO 9000
QMS can result in a food safety system that is more effective than applying ISO 9001 or
HACCP separately. The emphasis of both systems is prevention rather than correction of
problems or deficiencies after they occur. A company implementing a HACCP system does
not have to comply with ISO 9001 but it is desirable.
The seven principles of HACCP can be integrated with ISO 9001:2000 requirements, as explained below –


Attached File  HACCP___ISO_9000.pdf   248.52KB   134 downloads

The above contains various, generic type, example steps to assist combination.

The following (even older) item contains a more specific example ( based on ISO 9002!).

4. (ca 1999)

HACCP and ISO 9000 systems can be developed independently. However, each system can help to drive the development of the other. The operation of HACCP within any formal quality system wil be stronger as its effectiveness relies on proper implementation and ongoing maintenance.
There is a synergy between the two systems, both HACCP and ISO 9000 are concerned with the prevention and detection of food safety problems. In the case of ISO 9000, the scope is expanded to include all Quality Control measures in addition to those relating only to food safety.


Attached File  nav.PNG   905.9KB   41 downloads

5.

This extract is from No.3 above

ISO 15161:2001, Guidelines on the application of ISO 9001:2000 for the food and drink
industry. This document contains guidelines on applying ISO 9001:2000 to the food and drink industry, explaining how to integrate HACCP within an ISO 9001 QMS.


I think No.5 is mentioned elsewhere in this forum, sadly will not be free.

Didn’t see any more recent discussions either for/against above opinions, perhaps because of the advent of ISO 22000 of which the above are sort of preliminaries, I guess.


Rgds / Charles.C

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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