6 replies to this topic

[ultimaverde]

Hi, this is Bertha . I work for a trading company which imports, store and distributes fresh asparagus and berries packed in boxes and clamshells. We also have an small repacking line to "correct" quality issues of the product and to pack special presentations when needed. I need your advice to clarify the next doubts :

1. Implementing HACCP - I am asking for the GAP and F.S. certificates from our suppliers which would be the first CP - some of them are still developing their programs but we need their volume.

2. Implementing HACCP - Speaking of the repacking line of berries - the berries are sometines re-graded, but we do not have a disinfectant method implemented - do we really need it or we can get covered by the fact that the fruit is sold by the supermarkets with no added value and will be washed by the consumer?

3. We also pack MW bags from the fresh asparagus we buy - in your opinion, which CCP should we consider, given the fact that we cannot control the cooking?

4. Last one. We want to go forward and get certified - which STD do you recommend: SQF or ISO22k? we buy from different countries (South America, Mexico and also US), we distribute in US, Canada, and recently Europe.

thanks for your help, great to have a forum like this,

rgds,
b.

[GMO]

I can't answer all your questions; some will relate to the US market but I'll try on 2 and 3.

2. The first step is probably the supermarket's own standard for fresh fruit. Although I know many people who would not wash berries before eating them (even me on occasion, even though I know they're not treated), I think it's a fair assumption to cover yourself with the "wash before use" because if you did wash them, you would get a huge level of damage and reduction in shelf life which might actually make the micro loading worse not better! I think the best route is to monitor them but also have really strict hand hygiene requirements; frequent hand swabs etc. It is far more common in the US than the UK to have carriers as well, so it might even be worth doing some start of employment stool testing in addition to the normal questionnaire looking for a history of illness. I'd also be very careful about employing people who've recently worked with raw meat (I'd certainly stool test them pre employment) as they can end up carrying Salmonellae etc.

Remember also to really monitor your farms / suppliers closely. I've seen the US produce outbreaks from the UK and as far as I can tell, they all seem to be related to poor irrigation water which will lead to contamination inside the plant. You can't wash that off!

3. No sane person will eat asparagus raw. I'd still do testing as above and monitor the suppliers, monitor handwashing etc but you're right, the final kill step is with the consumer; however, I wouldn't expect pathogens to be present either if the controls are all good.

As you can't control micro apart from the prerequisite controls I've said above, you need to look at physical and chemical. Chemical - I can't see any CCP controls you need but I'd keep an eye on pesticide use (we had a major issue with spanish peppers a year ago so it can happen). Physical is probably touch and go if you need CCP controls. In a field obviously you can get soil, stones, glass, metal, insects etc. The shape of asparagus will help you as no physical contaminant is likely to get caught up with it. Probably best practice is to have a metal detector just because it's a standard now in the food industry and there is a small risk there. If you're washing the asparagus as well, that might be a CCP for physical contamination but all the above is debatable, it probably could be argued that all controls are prerequisites. If I was auditing you and saw either all prerequisites or perhaps up to 2 CCPs for physical controls, I'd be happy as long as either were justified and you have a good prerequisite programme.

Hope that's helpful.

[Simon]

4. Last one. We want to go forward and get certified - which STD do you recommend: SQF or ISO22k? we buy from different countries (South America, Mexico and also US), we distribute in US, Canada, and recently Europe.

Hi Bertha, I'm going to answer a tiny little part of your query. In Europe the main standards are BRC, IFS, EurepGap; neither ISO 22000 or SQF are popular with the retailers. Given a straight choice between SQF and ISO 22000 I would recommend SQF as it has now been accepted by GFSI and in theory is supposed to be accepted as an alternaive to BRC or SQF by some of the major European Retailers.

http://www.ciesnet.com/2-wwedo/2.2-program...safety.gfsi.asp

Regards,
Simon

[ultimaverde]

thanks for the replies, I will go for SQF then.

About the MW bags we pack - the provider of the bags is the one that did all the tests and established the shelf life. They usually come to do tests and look at the product in the market as well to make sure is OK. How do I add this part to the HACCP plan? What do I need to get from them?

About the berries - i agree, we cannot wash them without making the problem worse. I will focus in the wash before use label. In the case of asparagus - I found the same issue when hydrocooling the product that has been sorted (good product from product with condition issues), as its shelf life gets reduced and the tips end with an awful wet look . Please advice on how I can manage this issue as far as disinfection, or perhaps I do not need to do more than sorting as it will be cooked before eating anyways .

thanks again for your help.

bertha.

[Philip Herring]

Hi Bertha,

I am the Director of Training for North and South America for one of the largest registrars in the world. Although I am not a Food safety expert I have several who work for me. We teach both HACCP and SQF and we audit to 22k and HACCP around the world.

We can not post replies to your question on a message board but I would be happy to have a SME discuss the differences and benefits of each standard. (not a sales call -my division does not do that -just plain old straight shooting info.)

[Simon]

We can not post replies to your question on a message board but I would be happy to have a SME discuss the differences and benefits of each standard. (not a sales call -my division does not do that -just plain old straight shooting info.)

Why are you not willing to discuss on a message board Philip, we have lot's of visitors from all over the world who like to kick these subjects around for the benefit of current and future visitors. That's our purpose.

Regards,
Simon

[Simon]

I just wanted to add.

As a representative of a large Registrar I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that online message boards are increasingly becoming recognised as THE most effective and cost-effective online platform for engaging directly with potential customers, not in the future, but right now! However, it’s not easy to develop a popular message board. In fact it’s damn hard. The Internet is littered with tens of thousands of failed blogs and forums. So this place is special, world unique and it has taken a lot (and continues to take a lot) of hard work to make it so. We’ve been online here for over six years now and we have an ever-growing number of members (over 14,000 individual visitors in June).

That said I do take issue with new members who come on and post a single self-serving post. I find it rude and arrogant. It is against the ethos of the forum, which exists for the open sharing of information. Of course there are lots of members who have a commercial interest for being here and that’s fine. They share information and ideas and by having their marketing information such as contact details in their signature this appears automatically at the bottom of every post made by them to the forum. Great it’s win-win. Alternatively we have large commercial organisation that prefer to pay for advertising. Again it’s win-win.

I’m sorry for jumping down your throat Philip in fact it could have been anyone as it happens very regularly. I’m sure your colleagues have lots of knowledge to share, so invite them over and we will make them most welcome. After all we all want the same thing - safer food and better businesses.

Regards,
Simon