21 replies to this topic

[shrinksleeve]

Please excuse my ignorance regarding the BRC standard. I am new to this so please treat me gently!!! .

having just been passed a recent audit it was noted that drawing pins were evident on the noticeboards within the production area. The question I am having a problem receiving an answer is the following. Can I use lockable noticeboards within the production areas?. I am aware that there are different types of fastenings other than drawing pins, but would not a lockable noticeboard be enough?.

Can anyone help me please??.

Many thanks
Shrinksleeve

[Simon]

Please excuse my ignorance regarding the BRC standard. I am new to this so please treat me gently!!! .

having just been passed a recent audit it was noted that drawing pins were evident on the noticeboards within the production area. The question I am having a problem receiving an answer is the following. Can I use lockable noticeboards within the production areas?. I am aware that there are different types of fastenings other than drawing pins, but would not a lockable noticeboard be enough?.

Can anyone help me please??.

Many thanks
Shrinksleeve

Hello ShrinkSleeve, I think your member name gives us a bit of a clue to your product. In answer to your question I would say drawing pins would be OK if under a lockable noticeboard, I doubt any reasonable auditor could argue otherwise.

Welcome to the forums, I hope it's not your last contribution.



Regards,
Simon

[shrinksleeve]

Hi Simon,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. I thought the lockable type would be fine, just needed some sort of re-assurance. Thank-you once again.

I have been reading the forum rather a lot lately. I think it is a great tool, full of good, uesful information. Will most definately be posting in the future.

Regards
Shrinksleeve

[Simon]

Hi Simon,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. I thought the lockable type would be fine, just needed some sort of re-assurance. Thank-you once again.

I have been reading the forum rather a lot lately. I think it is a great tool, full of good, uesful information. Will most definately be posting in the future.

Regards
Shrinksleeve

Great to hear SS, have a nice loooooong weekend.

Simon

[GMO]

I'd disagree but then I'm fussy! If you have drawing pins and lockable notice boards, someone will have to carry drawing pins into the production area. Certainly if it was a food site it would be a definite no! I always use either lockable notice boards using magnetic holders or don't use notice boards but laminate the sheet and hold up with magnets.

[Simon]

I'd disagree but then I'm fussy! If you have drawing pins and lockable notice boards, someone will have to carry drawing pins into the production area. Certainly if it was a food site it would be a definite no! I always use either lockable notice boards using magnetic holders or don't use notice boards but laminate the sheet and hold up with magnets.

If I had a notice board in production with a lockable cover and drawing pins holding notices and an auditor made a point about it I would think that they were being pernickety beyond all reasonableness. And that’s being polite. In my opinion one of the most important attributes of a good auditor is the ability to be pragmatic. Lot’s of minor nonconformities handed out for trivial items that do not present any real risk only cloud the more serious issues and create a negative psychological response in the auditee. This lessens the beneficial impacts of the audit overall and for me that’s a failure on the part of the auditor.

Come on GMO it’s packaging, what’s the risk?

Regards,
Simon

[GMO]

Food head on probably but it depended on what type of packaging. If it was CPets or bottles etc (primary packaging that something could fall into) it's not a good idea. I agree it wouldn't be the top thing on my list. I once visited a packaging plant (making primary and secondary board packaging) and where the boards were fed into the machine, I saw a foot mark on the side where someone had obviously booted them in! That would concern me more!

I think the thing is I have always had the view that you should not allow anyone to take items in their pockets apart from a clock card if needed and a pen if needed. I have been unfortunate enough to work at two different companies where alleged deliberate contamination took place, for me, allowing someone to carry drawing pins into a production area is asking for trouble.

[Simon]

Food head on probably but it depended on what type of packaging. If it was CPets or bottles etc (primary packaging that something could fall into) it's not a good idea. I agree it wouldn't be the top thing on my list. I once visited a packaging plant (making primary and secondary board packaging) and where the boards were fed into the machine, I saw a foot mark on the side where someone had obviously booted them in! That would concern me more!

I think the thing is I have always had the view that you should not allow anyone to take items in their pockets apart from a clock card if needed and a pen if needed. I have been unfortunate enough to work at two different companies where alleged deliberate contamination took place, for me, allowing someone to carry drawing pins into a production area is asking for trouble.

OK if theres an alternative then why not. I think I was a little grumpy this morning, being Monday Tuesday and all. There should always be an open and honest debate between auditor and auditee with reducing risk being the objective rather than oneupmanship. There are always things to learn on both sides.

Regards,
Simon

[Dunaskin]

We use adhesive Velcro pads - One has 'hooks' for the notices, the other has 'felt' for the noticeboard.
Notices can then be added and removed with fear of anything dropping of and no risk of contamination.

[Gaskit]

We tend to utilise hooks / screws into the notice board then laminate the notices and hang them with "bulldog clips".

Regards,

Steve

[MartLgn]

The last packaging plant I worked at used whiteboards with magnetic backing in conjuction with plastic A4 sized notice covers with a magnetic edge. slide the notice into the cover and slap it onto the board.Sounds complicated but eliminates foreign body potential, keeps the notices clean and doubles up as a wipe clean board also.

[okido]

Hi Shrinksleeve,

Pins in a production area, sooner or later a auditor will stumble over it an it will result in a minor non conformity.
Also some for of the larger UK retailers this is a no go.
As already stated pins have to be carried through production.
The risk is slim but easy avoidable by spending a few Euro on decent notice bords, or electronic devices. (are they made by brittle plastic??)

Have a nice day, Okido

[Simon]

Some good ideas, I like the dual purpose whiteboard and magnets.

[shrinksleeve]

Many thanks to you all for your assistance with this topic. I think I will be going down the magnetic white board scenario. I feel this will be the most practical method for this operation.

Once again. Thank-you.

Kind regards
Shrinksleeve

[shrinksleeve]

Hi Martlgn,

Can you tell me where you can purchase the A4 magnectic sleeves. Are these sleeves that have been modified, ie standard sleeves with magnetic strips stuck to them, or they purpose bought??

Kind regards
Shrinksleeve

[GMO]

You can get self adhesive magnetic tape to stick to laminated sheets - try somewhere like staples.

[GMO]

Here's somewhere that sells it:

http://www.indigosho...bq92h3c2r01t81e

Also before you splash out on new noticeboards; some modern food sites have walls magnets can stick to anyway so check it first!

[shrinksleeve]

Many thanks.
Unfrotunately, the walls here are are not magnetic.However, I have managed to gather quite a few quotes now so I think I can close this topic off for now.

Thank you all for your contributions. Really useful info.

Kind regards
Shrinksleeve

[MartLgn]

Hi Shrinksleeve.

Sorry I've not been paying attention for a couple of days
The magnetic whiteboards can be had from almost any stationary supplier eg Viking, the sleeves can be had from this company magsleeves

Happy Shopping !

[cazyncymru]

SS you can get magnetic whiteboards that are lockable.

Just don't do the same as me, and mislay the keys! Auditors hate it more if the information is 3 months out of date!
good thing that the locks are quite flimsy!
and for the record, i found the keys, eventually.

also, i know that there is at least 1 retailer who in their COP states that you need an auditable inventory of equipment in production offices / stations, so don't forget to include the magnets; they can still fall into product or packaging.

Caz x
PS Hello Mart...LTNS!

[SfBread]

Thank you , thank you, thank you! Ive been searching the internet for these clips all day. Finally found what I needed when looked for "bull dog clips" Didnt know these fasteners actually had a name. Haha.

We tend to utilise hooks / screws into the notice board then laminate the notices and hang them with "bulldog clips".

Regards,

Steve

[Foodworker]

The general principle should be to minimise risks wherever possible.

There are many alternatives to using drawing pins - magnets, bulldog clips etc so why run the risk.

I tend to side with GMO on this one as getting drawing pins to the noticeboard and inserting them is where they are more likely to be dropped and lost.

Whether it should be a non conformity is open to debate, the clause does use the phrase "open notice board".

Be careful about the lockable noticeboards, the fronts are often glass and you could pick up a non conformity for having "unnecessary glass" (5.8.1.2 Issue 4)

The standard also prohibits the use of "loose fastenings" I once had an auditor claiming that a nailed up notice constituted a loose fastening.