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#1 a_andhika

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 10:50 AM

Dear Forum,

Hello... Actually I dont know where should I put this topic, but in the end I pick the Food Safety Discussion, because "Halal" ment to be "Safety" for moslems.

Halal is Arabic word which means lawful or permitted, and the opposite is Haram (www.halal science.org) I would like to have an opinion from you, about the necessity of Halal Certification for your products (regardless if you produce non-Halal products). Do you think its needed, or no? Or how do you look upon it? As for myself, I am a moslem (not interested to discuss further than that), and I think Halal is the primary thing to concern when I eat something. In my country, the Halal Certification is an important value added, especially when you produce foods for mass consumption.

Allow me to give you interesting piece of article from Asia Food Journal (May 2008 edition): "In 2007, global consumption of Halal food in more than 148 countries reached as much as 18 - 20% of the US $ 1323 trilliun in global food value." The moslems population estimated reach until 1.8 million all over this world. Its a very huge market. Do you agreed?

I hope this topic wont mislead you in any kind of aspects. Because all I want just share my thoughts.

Regards,


Arya


IF
safety and quality means perfection
AND
nobody's perfect
THEN
why should I bother?

#2 GMO

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 12:40 PM

I've never produced Halal foods because it's not something as requested in the UK, however demand is increasing and supermarkets now often stock some halal products. I have produced kosher chocolate before and know a little about that. When producing Halal do you need an Imam to come in?



#3 cazyncymru

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 01:48 PM

I've never produced Halal foods because it's not something as requested in the UK, however demand is increasing and supermarkets now often stock some halal products. I have produced kosher chocolate before and know a little about that. When producing Halal do you need an Imam to come in?



In the past i have worked in an environment where a Rabbi came in twice a year to bless our plant for Kosher reasons, even though we made no claims on our labels.

This came at a cost to us.(anout £1000 per visit)

I'd have no problems in having my product certified as being Halal, if my market warrented it, but i don't think it's right that as a manufacturer we have to absorb these costs.

Caz x

#4 Simon

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 08:38 AM

Arya, your question is Halal worth it? I know nothing about it, but form a business point of view. There is an ever growing demand for Halal foods, to be classed as being Halal requires certain practices and procedures to be followed, and independent auditing / certification is a validation that you have Halal compliant systems in place and they are operating effectively. If this is respected by customers this gives your business an edge over the competition and is then worth it.

I don’t know if there is a globally recognised certification scheme with accredited certification bodies, but I’m sure they will go down this route because there is much money to be made.

A question. In the food industry people cut corners and put profit in front of food safety and that’s why we have to have regulations and standards etc. For Halal could or would somebody do the same? If not there is less of a need for standards and certification schemes.


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#5 cazyncymru

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 11:10 AM

Dear Forum,

Hello... Actually I dont know where should I put this topic, but in the end I pick the Food Safety Discussion, because "Halal" ment to be "Safety" for moslems.

Halal is Arabic word which means lawful or permitted, and the opposite is Haram (www.halal science.org) I would like to have an opinion from you, about the necessity of Halal Certification for your products (regardless if you produce non-Halal products). Do you think its needed, or no? Or how do you look upon it? As for myself, I am a moslem (not interested to discuss further than that), and I think Halal is the primary thing to concern when I eat something. In my country, the Halal Certification is an important value added, especially when you produce foods for mass consumption.

Allow me to give you interesting piece of article from Asia Food Journal (May 2008 edition): "In 2007, global consumption of Halal food in more than 148 countries reached as much as 18 - 20% of the US $ 1323 trilliun in global food value." The moslems population estimated reach until 1.8 million all over this world. Its a very huge market. Do you agreed?

I hope this topic wont mislead you in any kind of aspects. Because all I want just share my thoughts.

Regards,


Arya



I've attached Codex's guidelines for using the term Halal

Caz x

Attached Files



#6 a_andhika

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 11:22 AM

Dear Forum,

Thanks for the comments... Halal Certification is published by Certification Body, or the Islamic Food Council. And just like the other certification, it needs auditing, and of course surveillance to extend the validation of Halal Certificate (usally held annually). And in my country, the cost only took few hundred dollars (if converted from Rupiah), and may variate depend on your product (but as far as I am concern none of them reach more than $1000/year). The auditors must have food knowledges (from farm to fork), beside the Islamic knowledge about Halal and Haram of course. So they dont have to be an Imam for instance.

As you mentioned, the demand of Halal products is increasing on every year. From this point of view, I think every company (except for those who produce non-Halal products), would consider to took this advantage and try to get a Halal certification. But my big point is the same thing as Simon's query... its not a big secret that on reality we found companies who have HACCP certificate would neglect their PRPs and other basic things, but always has somethin on the back of their sleeve. Then what about Halal? Has anyone in here ever found the same practise? Because I see this trend would come up in the future...

For another info, the certificate itself not only to prevent those practise, but primarily, to ensure that the product was Halal. So the Certification is a must if you want to claim your product is Halal.

Regards,


Arya


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THEN
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#7 AS NUR

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 01:20 AM

in term of business.. halal more valuable in moslem countries.. that make our product is save to be eaten by moslem people.. and according to population.. moslem countries have big people like Indonesia, Malaysia etc, they are million moslem people in that countries.. big potential market for HALAL products....



#8 Simon

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 05:42 PM

in term of business.. halal more valuable in moslem countries.. that make our product is save to be eaten by moslem people.. and according to population.. moslem countries have big people like Indonesia, Malaysia etc, they are million moslem people in that countries.. big potential market for HALAL products....

Does it make the food safe in any way or does it just make it acceptable to moslems?

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#9 YongYM

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 01:47 AM

Dear Simon:

Halal also means wholesome which includes cleanliness, safe for consumption besides abiding the syariah's law.


Yong



#10 Simon

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 08:53 AM

Hi Yong,

So is there any substance behind the principle of wholesomeness. What I mean is there some laid down criteria or requirements that covers HACCP and prerequisites or similar or do you still need to work with a standard such as BRC / IFS etc. to ensure safety?

Simon


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#11 a_andhika

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 06:03 AM

Hi Yong, So is there any substance behind the principle of wholesomeness. What I mean is there some laid down criteria or requirements that covers HACCP and prerequisites or similar or do you still need to work with a standard such as BRC / IFS etc. to ensure safety? Simon


Dear Simon,
The Halal Certification itself consists of two concepts that cannot be separated, which are "Halalan and Thayyiban". The first one is "Halalan", that means the food is permitted because suitable to Islam's rule (lawful), ex: not containing pork, dog, rum. The second one is "Thayyiban" which literally means "good". This concept taught us that, beside permitted by Islam's rule, the foods must be hygienic, healthy, and have adequate nutrition that needed for our body. Even if the material was Halal, but it doesnt Thayyib, we strongly suggested to avoid it, even in some case it might be Haram, ex: to consume beef from "mad cow", to consume chichken that unproperly cleaned.

This "Thayyiban" concept might be similar with the Food Safety concept. But I am afraid it wont be recognized by International standards of Food Safety. You wont find Halal clause in ISO 22K or BRC for instance. In our country, Halal Certification from the Islamic Council would be enough to convince the domestic consumers that the product is Halal and safe, but if we want to export it, that would be another story.

Regards,


Arya
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#12 Simon

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Posted 30 June 2008 - 07:43 AM

Dear Simon,
The Halal Certification itself consists of two concepts that cannot be separated, which are "Halalan and Thayyiban". The first one is "Halalan", that means the food is permitted because suitable to Islam's rule (lawful), ex: not containing pork, dog, rum. The second one is "Thayyiban" which literally means "good". This concept taught us that, beside permitted by Islam's rule, the foods must be hygienic, healthy, and have adequate nutrition that needed for our body. Even if the material was Halal, but it doesnt Thayyib, we strongly suggested to avoid it, even in some case it might be Haram, ex: to consume beef from "mad cow", to consume chichken that unproperly cleaned.

This "Thayyiban" concept might be similar with the Food Safety concept. But I am afraid it wont be recognized by International standards of Food Safety. You wont find Halal clause in ISO 22K or BRC for instance. In our country, Halal Certification from the Islamic Council would be enough to convince the domestic consumers that the product is Halal and safe, but if we want to export it, that would be another story.

Regards,


Arya

I'm learning a lot here Arya - thank you. So is there an opportunity for a food safety standard to extend its scope to include Halal e.g. BRC Halal Standard or something similar. Surely there is soemthing already developed or in process. :dunno:

Regards,
Simon

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#13 AS NUR

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 02:03 AM

dear all...

Halal Assurance System (HAS) is common system in our country especially for Food manufacturing.. Halal Assurance System is a System to set up by a halal certified company to assure the suitainability of halal Production... Today we have an issue to integrate of HAS with ISO and HACCP..

I Think that very usefull to integrate HAS with ISO and HACCP.. so the organization only have one system to cover all...



#14 Simon

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 07:27 AM

I Think that very usefull to integrate HAS with ISO and HACCP.. so the organization only have one system to cover all...

That's what I meant as the BRC Food Standard is supposed to be the equivalent of ISO 9001 & HACCP.

So just to confirm this standard does not exist right now?

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#15 a_andhika

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 08:26 AM

So just to confirm this standard does not exist right now?


Dear Simon,

As far as I am concern, there is no Halal Standard that combined with Food Safety standards which globally accepted (has anyone seen it?). But in certain company, they might be developed together. In our company, we commited to produce products with Safety, Halal, and Quality guarrantee. Therefore, we develop the FSMS together with HAS (Halal Assurance System). Other company might has a same point of view, but I guess their HAS might not be the same like us. Because Halal is particularly depend on the products.

And that is one of the reason (perhaps), why the authority to declare the Halal Certification is given to the Islamic Council at every countries, not declared by an "International Halal Organisation", for instance. Thats why you may found Halal Certification from British, USA, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.

Regards,


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#16 Charles Chew

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:12 AM

I am not aware of an International Standard on HALAL and it is unlikely that there will be one in the near future as every Islamic and Non-Islamic country feels that there have a better system than every body else.

Furthermore, it is incredible that a HALAL certification obtained from one Islamic country does not necessarily get recognition by another Islamic country. So why should this divergence of recognition occur when Syariah Law should be a standard issue when based on the Al-Quran.

The problems lies partially with Al-Hadith including the desire of every Islamic Country on earth of wanting to be the "special one"

Ever heard of "Halal Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point" or Halal E-Numbers etc - thats what you would have to do when pursuing for Halal Certification.

With modern complex ingredients, I know of certain Halal Boards even have testing equipment such as LC/MS/MS apart from the usual GC etc test equipment for Shariah conformity validation.

The problem with Halal Certification today is that conformity to Syariah Religious Law is not good enough because the product has to be processed hygienically to meet the wholesomeness criteria.

However, a product can be Haram if it does not meet the Syariah Law but it does not meant it is not wholesome while a Halal Product can conform to Syariah Law but is necessarily wholesome if not hygienically produced

Getting for a true Halal Certification is a long journey and maintaining one is even harder if truly practiced.

Cheers!


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#17 YongYM

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 10:28 AM

Dear Simon:

From what I know is: the food safety systems ensure the production of safe food. Therefore, the implementation of the well-recognised system e.g. HACCP etc. will definitely facilitate the application of Halal certification and complement the halal system.

However, there are some other requiremnts which are related to the Islamic law e.g. the forbidden of porcine material, dog, drunkening alcohol etc. They also emphasize on 'cross-contamination' e.g. if the the material produced is halal but placed next to a non-halal item, this may render the material not halal.

Any comment from the rest?

Yong



#18 Simon

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 08:04 AM

Any comment from the rest?

Hmm. I'm sure this topic is of interest to many of our members. It sounds like a glorious opportunity for some capable organisation to develop a Food Safety Halal standard.

Regards,
Simon

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#19 FDAInvestigator

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 12:28 PM

I read this thread this morning here across the pond and remembered that Codex Alimentarius has a general standard for use of the term "Halal" that you might not be aware of. The other food safety standards in Codex Alimentarius apply to Halal foods just as they do to any other foods (e.g. kosher).

Here is a link:
http://www.codexalim...52/CXG_024e.pdf

Cheers! :rolleyes:



#20 FDAInvestigator

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 12:34 PM

Here is another link I obtained coming from Malaysia that may be of interest:
http://www.afmaasia....006/Annex-4.pdf

A few years ago I read with interest about a scandal involving a number of issues surrounding food safety issues surrounding Halal meat in the UK while studying EU law.



#21 FDAInvestigator

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 12:42 PM

Here is a paper on the UK Halal meat scandal that I referenced- interesting reading. it speaks to global trafficking in illegal meat, a topic that I am very interested in.
http://www.iccservic...e_in_the_uk.pdf



#22 Ramadan Elsayyad

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 08:57 AM

Dear Brothers and sisters, kindly find attached Halal standard SMIIC-OIC ,it is the common one if any body need any help or assistance at halal scope I am here.  I am working as Lead Auditor halal (sharia and technical) 

 

best regards

Ramadan Elsayyad

Attached Files


Edited by Simon, 06 December 2018 - 09:17 AM.


#23 SQFconsultant

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 11:23 AM

Someone stated that HALAL certification makes the product safe to consume. No, it does not, but it does convey to the consumer that the product is in compliance with the requirements of HALAL.

 

This is by the way similar in many ways with a KOSHER certification that we ourselves look for and a KOSHER certification also does not make the product safe to consume, it only shows that the food product is in complaince with the requirements of the KOSHER regulations.  

 

Most people do not understand the compliance items under these certifications (or package marks), however a growing number of consumers want these certifications.

 

It would be more apt to say that "food is safe from" than to say that "food is made safe" by having these certifications.  

 

For instance we rely on the Kosher certifying symbol on a product to ensure that it is CLEAN food - meaning it does not contain any non-food additives such as PORK, CARMINE, BEAVER (anal gland liquid) and others.

 

Thus, both of these validators have value in the marketplace.


Edited by SQFconsultant, 13 December 2018 - 11:23 AM.

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