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Simon

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:10 PM

I heard on the radio today that during the credit crunch people are taking more risks by eating foods that they may have tossed in the garbage during better times. The guest from the Food Standards Agency went on to explain the difference between “USE BY” and “BEST BEFORE” dates and now at last I finally understand it.

USE BY – is the date up to which the foodstuff is SAFE TO EAT. USE BY is related to FOOD SAFETY and eating foodstuffs after their USE BY date caries and increased risk of food poisoning.

BEST BEFORE – is the date up to which the foodstuff is at its best in terms of taste, colour, texture etc. BEST BEFORE is related to FOOD QUALITY and eating foodstuffs after their BEST BEFORE date is likely to disappoint rather than cause food poisoning.

I did think afterwards there must be a point in time at which foodstuffs that have BEST BEFORE dates do become injurious, but it won’t stop me from eating the Cadbury’s Roses chocolates I have with a BEST BEFORE date of August 2008.

The above date coding system applies to the UK and I wondered whether the same system is used in other countries or what other systems are used.

Regards,
Simon


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Madam A. D-tor

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:02 PM

Hi Simon,

Seems really interesting to compare such terms internationally.

In the Netherlands we use:
"te gebruiken tot" which will be translated to use by. Not only literal, but also in the way to use is. It is used for microbiological sensitive products, e.g. ready to eat meals. It should be accompanied with the text "after opening keep refrigerate and consume within X days". X is mostly 2.

"ten minste houdbaar tot" (THT) which is more or less the same as your BBD. Mostly it is based on microbiological properties (total count or lactos) and organoleptic testings.


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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:54 AM

Dear Simon,

Yes, I remember seeing this on the FSA website somewhere.

I bet the guest expert did not elaborate on how they calculate the difference :whistle:

Its sort of anecdotal but I believe in Australia that there are shops which specifically sell "expired" product. I presume this is >level 1 but (hopefully) <= level2.

Rgds - Charles.C


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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:25 AM

I heard on the radio today that during the credit crunch people are taking more risks by eating foods that they may have tossed in the garbage during better times. The guest from the Food Standards Agency went on to explain the difference between “USE BY” and “BEST BEFORE” dates and now at last I finally understand it.

USE BY – is the date up to which the foodstuff is SAFE TO EAT. USE BY is related to FOOD SAFETY and eating foodstuffs after their USE BY date caries and increased risk of food poisoning.

BEST BEFORE – is the date up to which the foodstuff is at its best in terms of taste, colour, texture etc. BEST BEFORE is related to FOOD QUALITY and eating foodstuffs after their BEST BEFORE date is likely to disappoint rather than cause food poisoning.

I did think afterwards there must be a point in time at which foodstuffs that have BEST BEFORE dates do become injurious, but it won’t stop me from eating the Cadbury’s Roses chocolates I have with a BEST BEFORE date of August 2008.

The above date coding system applies to the UK and I wondered whether the same system is used in other countries or what other systems are used.

Regards,
Simon


We have in the past opened tins of rice pudding that were maybe 10 years out of date to see if they were still viable.
microbiologically they were, but the quality wasn't quite the same (still edible though)

rule of thumb is that if the can isn't damaged then it should be safe


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Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:38 PM

Dear Caz,

rule of thumb is that if the can isn't damaged then it should be safe


Any other, more statistically-based, support data ??

I first read it as "rule of run" :biggrin:

Rgds / Charles.C

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Charles.C


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Posted 29 March 2009 - 04:18 PM

Dear Caz,



Any other, more statistically-based, support data ??

I first read it as "rule of run" :biggrin:

Rgds / Charles.C



LOL of course!

the contents in a can are technically sterile, but if the can or seal is compromised it means that potentially microranisms can enter the can and contaminate the contents.

so im the saddo inspecting the cans before i put them into my trolley!


c xx


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Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:27 PM

Food Advise Relating to Use-By Dates and Best Before Dates

The following information has been taken from the Food Standards Agency Website

What do ‘use by’, ‘best before’ and ‘display until’ mean?

'Use by' means exactly that. You shouldn't use any food or drink after the end of the 'use by' date shown on the label. Even if it looks and smells fine, using it after this date could put your health at risk and cause food poisoning.

You will usually find a 'use by' date on food that goes off quickly, such as milk, soft cheese, ready-prepared salads and smoked fish.

It's also important to follow any storage instructions given on food labels, otherwise the food might not last until the 'use by' date. Usually food with a 'use by' date needs to be kept in the fridge.

'Best before' dates are usually used on foods that last longer, such as frozen, dried or canned foods. It should be safe to eat food after the 'best before' date, but the food will no longer be at its best. After this date, the food might begin to lose its flavour and texture.

However, you shouldn't eat eggs after the 'best before' date. This is because eggs can contain salmonella bacteria, which could start to multiply after this date.

Some food labels also give instructions such as 'eat within a week of opening' and it's important to follow these instructions. But remember, if the 'use by' date is tomorrow, then you must use the food by the end of tomorrow, even if the label says 'eat within a week of opening' and you have only opened the food today.

'Display until' and 'sell by' dates are instructions for shop staff to tell them when they should take a product off the shelves.

Source: http://www.eatwell.g...ksamlabelterms/

Is it legal to sell products past their 'best before' date?

Shops are allowed to sell food after its 'best before' date has passed. 'best before' dates are concerned with quality rather than safety, so it doesn't mean that the food is dangerous if the 'best before' date has passed. However, if you buy food after the date, remember that it might no longer be at its best.

'Use by' dates are different to 'best before' dates and it is against the law to sell any food that has passed its 'use by' date. Using it after this date could put your health at risk.

In all cases, whether or not the 'best before' date has expired, the law says that food sold must not put people's health at risk and must not be falsely or misleadingly described or presented.

Source: http://www.eatwell.g...labellingrules/

I bought a sandwich and when I got home I realised that its ‘use by’ date was two days ago. What should I do?

Don’t eat the sandwich. You shouldn’t eat any food product that has passed its ‘use by’ date, because it might not be safe to eat. In fact, it’s illegal for shops to sell food after its ‘use by’ date.

You could take the sandwich back to the shop where you bought it and ask for an exchange or refund. Or you could contact the trading standards or environmental health service at your local authority. It is their responsibility to investigate if they think a shop is not obeying the law, and to take appropriate action. If you decide to contact your local authority, you may need to make a statement and give them the food product and packaging as evidence.

But remember that ‘use by’ dates are different to other dates you may see on food products. It’s not illegal for shops to sell food after its ‘best before’, ‘sell by’ or ‘display until’ date.

Source: http://www.eatwell.g...labellingrules/

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:13 PM

Food Advise Relating to Use-By Dates and Best Before Dates

The following information has been taken from the Food Standards Agency Website

However, you shouldn't eat eggs after the 'best before' date. This is because eggs can contain salmonella bacteria, which could start to multiply after this date.


Salmonella can start to multiply at any stage given the right temperature so this info from FSA is inaccurate. Store your eggs in a fridge and use them before the best before date.

Regards,

Tony :rolleyes:


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Posted 30 July 2009 - 03:45 PM

Salmonella can start to multiply at any stage given the right temperature so this info from FSA is inaccurate. Store your eggs in a fridge and use them before the best before date.

Regards,

Tony :rolleyes:

Question Tony. Stored at the correct temperature is it more or less likely that Salmonella will start to multiply after the best before date?

I think this article is strictly advising about dates, what they mean and their importance and not the wider food safety issues such as safe storage temperatures etc. Are you being a bit unfair?

Simon

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:48 AM

Use by means just that. It is for microbiologically highly perishable foods, which may present a danger to health of consumed after the stated date. It is also illegal to sell or expose for sale any item beyond it's stated use by date.

Best Before is a the final date of when the manufacturer expects the food to be at it's best. This is for microbiologically less perishable foods, and is dependent upon preservation techniques used. Whereas it is not illegal to sale beyond the Best Before date, the retailer is liable if the food is not of the quality demanded by the consumer when sold beyond the best before date. As a point in fact, in a previous "life", I once prosecuted a retailer for selling Cola and Beer beyond their best before dates, as they were flat and tasted poor.


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Posted 04 August 2009 - 03:24 AM

Question Tony. Stored at the correct temperature is it more or less likely that Salmonella will start to multiply after the best before date?

I think this article is strictly advising about dates, what they mean and their importance and not the wider food safety issues such as safe storage temperatures etc. Are you being a bit unfair?

Simon


Harsh but fair

The article is fine and overall the message is very clear, however, this is the Food Standards Agency and I would expect the information they give out to be accurate.
If they wrote "Salmonella can reach unsafe levels after the Best Before Date" then that would be fine.

Regards,

Tony :smile:


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Posted 04 August 2009 - 05:02 AM

Dear Simon,

However, you shouldn't eat eggs after the 'best before' date. This is because eggs can contain salmonella bacteria, which could start to multiply after this date.


Surely, in the "risk assessment" sense, it would simply be more logical to not allow the "Best Before" option for eggs. Or, justify it accordingly. E.g, assuming X% is known to be contaminated, what percentage of the traded product is for direct consumption or to be used in non-bactericidally based procedures for products of a similar usage, eg egg nog (from memory) ?

The problem is that this kind of nit-picking leads to other awkward topics. From a previous post citing FSA, eggs are seemingly one specific exception to the "general" rule, are there many others ? Out of curiosity, do chilled items like tray-wrapped, raw chicken breasts have a best before also ? (significant risk of subsequent crosss-contamination in the kitchen based on known contamination data ?)

Rgds / Charles.C

Kind Regards,

 

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 09:55 AM

Dear Charles

From past experience in the fresh poultry industry SELL by dates were established by storing product as per instructions, then monitoring micro development. Some allowance was made for a little misuse, and for a little delay in cooking, but once the consumer walked out off the store it was his/her responsibility to keep it chilled. It was assumed in those days that the consumer also had enough common sense not to leave it in the fridge for a couple of weeks before cooking (hopefully) and eating it.

It got more complicated when using gas flushing techniques on bulk packed product for the retail butchers.

The gas delayed the micro development but once the seal was broken the SELL by date was shortened so a two tier system was used. Maximum life in gas plus X days. If the gas was released earlier the SELL by date was x days after.

The introduction of 'USE By' dates was intended to overcome the confusion though the methods for establishing that date are fundamentally the same BUT producers and retailers still rely on the consumer looking after the product correctly.

In my first week in the poultry industry I had to respond to a consumer claiming that a deep frozen turkey was off once it had been thawed. She was duly reimbursed.
She lived near to the plant and two months later I ended up buying her house.
I discovered that the central heating boiler was located in a corner under the kitchen work surface! In the perfect place to put your big turkey to thaw out ....and create a nice warm home for bacteria.

Another complainant when visited was found to let the cat wander all over the kitchen work surfaces.

Regarding the earlier discussion about tinned products - in the early 1970's a Heinz colleague discovered a half case of Oxtail Soup tucked away in an old grocery store. They had been canned in 1942 and sported the wartime half labels. None of the tins were blown, and they were not rusted through. The soup was delicious, with a very faint metalic tang.

Regards

Derrick Blunden



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Posted 04 August 2009 - 01:41 PM

Dear Derrick,

1st post in 5 years. Welcome back ! and thanks for yr observations. The spoilage examples you quote are legion of course. A recent one I had was a consignment of frozen fish sent by air due to urgency. Dry ice was omitted due to the sender noting a flight time of only 2 hours (!). Arrived 24 hours later, thawed out and ruined. There are one or 2 other notes on this forum on successful sampling of vintage canned items however I fear that the “bad” results have been under-reported (no-one to tell the tale :smile: ). Am not sure if “SELL BY” still in use or was it totally replaced by the BB/UB duo?.

This is getting a bit OT regarding Simon’s original question but –

One aspect I find a bit confusing is yr comments about monitoring microbial development. I seem to recall that 10 years or so ago, the typical supermarket Salmonella detection rate on the product I mentioned was something like 10-15% and the last statistic I remember seeing was 5-10%. So do you monitor the actual level for its acceptability (seems impossible?) or simply apply an overall maximum acceptable average contamination (ie +ve detection) rate. Or ignore the Salmonella factor altogether as a “given” ? Consequently I couldn’t see any way to attach this product with a “Best Before” type concept without making some kind of micro-compromise. And similarly for eggs. And….

[The “difficulties” of issuing realistic micro. specifications for chicken (except in some Scandinavian countries) are well-known of course, I was/am just doing a minor devil’s advocate for the “best before/use by” scenario.]

Rgds / Charles.C


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Posted 04 August 2009 - 03:25 PM

Dear Charles


The Best Before / Use By dates replaced Sell by. They were intended to be far easier to understand in a world that moved from a 'shop today for cooking today' lifestyle to 'one shopping trip to last the week' which requires products bought on Friday night to have a long enough 'use by' to last until the following Thursday night. (That's why my wife fills the fridge with yoghurt)

My recollection goes back beyond 10 years and I was not directly involved in the testing so I cannot give you a specific answer on the salmonella question. I believe the general levels (Total Viable Counts - TVC's) provided a bench mark for trending in those days. But back then any positive results arrived the day after the product should have been sold. Even today to get an answer within two days of the 'Use by' date is good going on fresh poultry products.

That is why HACCP was introduced. That is why the UK's Salmonella in eggs scheme has worked.
Get it out of the system back on the farms and your Lion Eggs have re-acquired a reputation for safety.

To a degree the establishment of EU testing criteria for a series of critical products has begun to address this requirement by setting minimum testing frequency and maximum acceptable levels.

You need to communicate with a microbiologist on the issue, but from my little understanding there are some bacteria in small numbers which the body can kill before they will do any harm. There others like E.coli O157 where the dangerous level is very small because the body cannot kill them. There also different levels for different foods.

That is where a certain well known Chocolate producer came unstuck. The protective nature of chocolate as it passes through the gut will protect the bacteria so that it arrives lower down in large enough quantities to make the consumer ill. They thought there was a minimum acceptable level.....but it was zero. There are also levels that are safe for most people but dangerous to the young, the ill and the pregnant mother. Listeria being the current baddy in these circumstances.

As for those having bad canning experiences not being around to complain I beleive the big problem was (is) botulism. There seems to be a high public awareness about not buying blown cans, and there is much less home canning and home bottling than there used to be so levels of outbreaks are relatively low. In the USA it is a much bigger problem especially in rural areas where home preserving is more regularly practised.

I don't know if it is still carried out but I remember visiting a huge warehouse full of canned foods in quaranteen at a heat that would cause the bactria to grow...if they were there... and the contaminated/damaged cans would blow.

Fortunately that is not recommended for your fresh chilled chicken breast!

Talking of spoilage in transit......back in the dark ages I remember being told to send replacement frozen turkeys by post! The birds would take three days to deliver and be nicely ready for the oven when they arrived. The IRA had other ideas and the Post Office had to shut down the Birmingham Central Sorting Office just before Easter that year ..... a popular time for turkeys to be requested.

Finally my suggestions of sending out a voucher instead was accepted.

Regards

Derrick Blunden



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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:25 AM

This is getting a bit OT regarding Simon’s original question but –

Don’t worry Charles that’s one of the thing that I love about this forum. :smile:

Talking of spoilage in transit......back in the dark ages I remember being told to send replacement frozen turkeys by post! The birds would take three days to deliver and be nicely ready for the oven when they arrived. The IRA had other ideas and the Post Office had to shut down the Birmingham Central Sorting Office just before Easter that year ..... a popular time for turkeys to be requested.

Finally my suggestions of sending out a voucher instead was accepted.

And when you get gems like this you can see why. :lol:

Thanks for the input everyone I learned and laughed a lot.

Derrick please don’t leave it so long next time it is clear you have much to offer this forum.

Regards,
Simon

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 11:10 PM

12 years later..........

 

 

and at what point does a manufacturer become liable for a BB food item that has gone off? i.e. become unsafe to eat not just a quality issue?

 

asking as i have a new heat treated drink product and torn between using a use-by date or a BB date. It's fairly shelf stable at ambient temperatures but i know at some point it would go off ....possibly around the 6 month mark. Shouldn't this be a Use-By product instead?

 

Thanks in advance!



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Posted 15 April 2021 - 11:40 PM

12 years later..........

 

 

Qu1 and at what point does a manufacturer become liable for a BB food item that has gone off? i.e. become unsafe to eat not just a quality issue?

 

asking as i have a new heat treated drink product and torn between using a use-by date or a BB date. It's fairly shelf stable at ambient temperatures but i know at some point it would go off ....possibly around the 6 month mark. Qu2 Shouldn't this be a Use-By product instead?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Hi Teem,

 

I suggest addressing Qu 2 before Qu 1.

 

A little more context might assist.

 

Can?  Plastic Bottle ?

 

afaik, first priority is typically to determine (risk assessment) if there is a safety risk during desired shelf life, ie if Use By is mandated.

 

So what is yr intended storage situation / shelf life when commercialized ? eg ambient or chilled or ?

 

"Heat treated" means was designed to be pasteurized or ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 16 April 2021 - 11:12 AM

There ARE legal and regulatory issues depending on what country you are in

 

Here in the great white north the following applies

https://inspection.c...7/1332357545633

 

 

By "off" do you mean unsafe or that the quality has deteriorated?  Not the same thing, one statement requires a "use by" the other requires a "Best before"


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


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Posted 16 April 2021 - 04:54 PM

There ARE legal and regulatory issues depending on what country you are in

 

Here in the great white north the following applies

https://inspection.c...7/1332357545633

 

 

By "off" do you mean unsafe or that the quality has deteriorated?  Not the same thing, one statement requires a "use by" the other requires a "Best before"

 

Thank you for the link...found it very useful 

 

I'm in the UK and by "OFF" I mean food safety. Best before foods will eventually become unsafe wont they? Where does manufacturer's liability end? 

 

I'm leaning towards a BB date as that's what  the guidance suggests and similar products on the market show but we don't want to be liable for anything going wrong if consumed after the BB date as such thinking maybe a Use-By is safer?

 

We would be dating a bit less than whatever the Shelf life tests come back with anyway just to create a safety margin for product abuse

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Teem,

 

I suggest addressing Qu 2 before Qu 1.

 

A little more context might assist.

 

Can?  Plastic Bottle ?

 

afaik, first priority is typically to determine (risk assessment) if there is a safety risk during desired shelf life, ie if Use By is mandated.

 

So what is yr intended storage situation / shelf life when commercialized ? eg ambient or chilled or ?

 

"Heat treated" means was designed to be pasteurized or ?

 

Thank you Charles 

 

Plastic bottle.

 

Product is heated to 100oC and held at that temperature for 15mins. Left to Cool (in a VAT ) to around 30-40oC and "cold" filled. 

 

Storage is intended to be ambient at this point solely because we don't have refrigerated storage at the moment (will change in the near future) but retailers are advised to sell chilled

 

They are in the lab as I type currently being assessed for life (both ambient and chilled) but will be date marked based on the ambient life. We anticipate ambient life to be anything between 3 - 6months at the most based on similar products out there. They are also organoleptic assessments being done concurrently in-house 

 

Product has pH 3.1 with no artificial preservatives as such, life potentially may be shorter ....fingers crossed!

 

Any guidance on this would be welcome. Thank you!



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Posted 16 April 2021 - 07:23 PM

In the UK (and EU), "best-before" is used to indicate the date upto which foods are guaranteed (ish) to have the quality that the manufacturer intended. Consuming a food with a best-before marking after this date should not carry any risk of making the consumer unwell, but it may not look/feel/taste as good as it should. Typical examples would be canned/bottled soft drinks, where unopened packs last pretty much as long as the packaging remains integral, but the flavour/colour/aroma will gradually get worse over time. Chilled fruit juices are also another example - these will go "off", in that it's expect that yeast/moulds/various types of spoilage bacteria can and will grow in there, but their inherent acidity is such that pathogenic bacteria (i.e. those posing a food safety risk) shouldn't be able to.

 

"Use-by" has more specific legal requirements, and is used to indicate the date upto which a product is safe. Things like meat, chilled sandwiches, milk etc where beyond a certain point it is possible/expected that they will/can grow various potentially dangerous bacteria, at levels that could harm consumers.

 

These are defined in Regulation (EU) 1169/2011 - you want Article 24 for info on "use by" dates, and Article 2(1)® for "best before", although the latter is referred to as the "date of minimum durability", and then further explanation is provide there and in Annex X of the same regulation.

 

At the pH you're dealing with, I'd very much expect this to be a best-before dated product, not use-by. As you're cold-filling, unless you have an aseptic system there is definitely some potential for contamination after your heat treatment, so I'd be cautious about how you interpret the shelf-life testing data if this is a small number of samples, as you'd ideally want to plan for what happens in the worst case - "lucky" samples may show no contamination, but that doesn't mean it can't/won't happen, and you will find that a variety of non-dangerous things can grow in there and spoil your product unless you have preservatives in there.

 

(Also one to be aware of - I've heard a few annecdotal reports of drinks companies being forced to recall ambient product that yeast issues on the basis that it could explode and cause a health & safety issue, even if not a food safety one ;) ).



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Posted 16 April 2021 - 07:48 PM

In the UK (and EU), "best-before" is used to indicate the date upto which foods are guaranteed (ish) to have the quality that the manufacturer intended. Consuming a food with a best-before marking after this date should not carry any risk of making the consumer unwell, but it may not look/feel/taste as good as it should. Typical examples would be canned/bottled soft drinks, where unopened packs last pretty much as long as the packaging remains integral, but the flavour/colour/aroma will gradually get worse over time. Chilled fruit juices are also another example - these will go "off", in that it's expect that yeast/moulds/various types of spoilage bacteria can and will grow in there, but their inherent acidity is such that pathogenic bacteria (i.e. those posing a food safety risk) shouldn't be able to.

 

"Use-by" has more specific legal requirements, and is used to indicate the date upto which a product is safe. Things like meat, chilled sandwiches, milk etc where beyond a certain point it is possible/expected that they will/can grow various potentially dangerous bacteria, at levels that could harm consumers.

 

These are defined in Regulation (EU) 1169/2011 - you want Article 24 for info on "use by" dates, and Article 2(1)® for "best before", although the latter is referred to as the "date of minimum durability", and then further explanation is provide there and in Annex X of the same regulation.

 

At the pH you're dealing with, I'd very much expect this to be a best-before dated product, not use-by. As you're cold-filling, unless you have an aseptic system there is definitely some potential for contamination after your heat treatment, so I'd be cautious about how you interpret the shelf-life testing data if this is a small number of samples, as you'd ideally want to plan for what happens in the worst case - "lucky" samples may show no contamination, but that doesn't mean it can't/won't happen, and you will find that a variety of non-dangerous things can grow in there and spoil your product unless you have preservatives in there.

 

(Also one to be aware of - I've heard a few annecdotal reports of drinks companies being forced to recall ambient product that yeast issues on the basis that it could explode and cause a health & safety issue, even if not a food safety one ;) ).

 

Hi pH,

 

Many thanks for the above.

 

**I seem to recall that some similar processed (?) products in US are required to be labelled that consumption is at buyer's own risk. Notably those with pathogenic micro. opportunities IIRC, eg apple.

 

Does "cold fill" typically have shorter shelf life than hot fill ? (I guess yes).

 

** PS - just remembered that my above caveat was related to unpasteurized juices. I presume (hope) the conditions in Post 20 are typical pasteurization values for XYZ.


Edited by Charles.C, 16 April 2021 - 07:58 PM.
added

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 17 April 2021 - 01:47 PM

Hi pH,

 

Many thanks for the above.

 

**I seem to recall that some similar processed (?) products in US are required to be labelled that consumption is at buyer's own risk. Notably those with pathogenic micro. opportunities IIRC, eg apple.

 

Does "cold fill" typically have shorter shelf life than hot fill ? (I guess yes).

 

** PS - just remembered that my above caveat was related to unpasteurized juices. I presume (hope) the conditions in Post 20 are typical pasteurization values for XYZ.

The UK doesn't really have an equivalent of the FDA's mandated warning label for unpasteurized juices. Freshly squeezed juice is perhaps less of a significant sector here, what with the British climate being too warm and dry for citrus cultivation on the scale of e.g. Florida, and most of the juice from our own apple crop being destined for cider ("hard cider", for those across the pond).

The little freshly squeezed juice that is on sale would be subject to the same requirements as any other foodstuff, so there would have to be a HACCP system in place to address potential risks - I think the FSA would take the view that, if a product is known to potentially be hazardous, it shouldn't be on sale - in fact if it does have pathogenic bacteria in it at levels that would be problematic, it's almost certainly considered "injurious to health" and thus not complliant with the UK Food Safety Act and/or General Food Regulation (EC) 178/2002.

The closest equivalent I can think of is unpasteurised milk, for which I don't know if there is an formal positition at an EU level - the approach isn't even harmonised within the UK itself for this, with England effectively only permitting it to be sold through a small subset of pre-approved premises (and subject to the advice that sensitive consumer groups should avoid it), whilst Scotland has an outright ban on sale of it IIRC.

 

As for hot/cold fill, hot-fill is usually the "easier" way of accomplishing ambient stability, as one can use the hot liquid to pasteurise the inside of the container/headspace. Ambiet-stable cold-fill with the same (organoleptically limited) shelf life as hot-fill is entirely possible too, and is routinely used for lots of soft drinks, but requires a bit more thought and effort in terms of controlling potential contamination of the packaging, inner surface of the lid, air etc. That or you can throw preservatives at it, which will deal with limited levels of post-pasteurization micro contamination that would be likely to occur in an environment with decent GMP.



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Posted 17 April 2021 - 05:36 PM

The UK doesn't really have an equivalent of the FDA's mandated warning label for unpasteurized juices. Freshly squeezed juice is perhaps less of a significant sector here, what with the British climate being too warm and dry for citrus cultivation on the scale of e.g. Florida, and most of the juice from our own apple crop being destined for cider ("hard cider", for those across the pond).

The little freshly squeezed juice that is on sale would be subject to the same requirements as any other foodstuff, so there would have to be a HACCP system in place to address potential risks - I think the FSA would take the view that, if a product is known to potentially be hazardous, it shouldn't be on sale - in fact if it does have pathogenic bacteria in it at levels that would be problematic, it's almost certainly considered "injurious to health" and thus not complliant with the UK Food Safety Act and/or General Food Regulation (EC) 178/2002.

The closest equivalent I can think of is unpasteurised milk, for which I don't know if there is an formal positition at an EU level - the approach isn't even harmonised within the UK itself for this, with England effectively only permitting it to be sold through a small subset of pre-approved premises (and subject to the advice that sensitive consumer groups should avoid it), whilst Scotland has an outright ban on sale of it IIRC.

 

As for hot/cold fill, hot-fill is usually the "easier" way of accomplishing ambient stability, as one can use the hot liquid to pasteurise the inside of the container/headspace. Ambiet-stable cold-fill with the same (organoleptically limited) shelf life as hot-fill is entirely possible too, and is routinely used for lots of soft drinks, but requires a bit more thought and effort in terms of controlling potential contamination of the packaging, inner surface of the lid, air etc. That or you can throw preservatives at it, which will deal with limited levels of post-pasteurization micro contamination that would be likely to occur in an environment with decent GMP.

 

Hi pHruit,

 

Again, thks above.

 

Definitely not my product area but after a little reading, I deduced that, assuming that appropriate pasteurization, formulation and hygiene practices are maintained, "USE BY" (eg involving microbial safety aspects) is mostly associated with items such as freshly squeezed juices, smoothies and chilled juices.

 

JFI I noticed this "comment" while browsing  -

It has been suggested that the following food groups, essentially all chilled foods, are likely to require a `use by' date:

· dairy products, e.g. fresh cream-filled desserts
· cooked products, e.g. ready-to-heat meat dishes
· smoked or cured ready-to-eat meat or fish, e.g. hams, smoked salmon fillets
· prepared ready-to-eat foods, e.g. sandwiches, vegetable salads such as coleslaw
· uncooked or partly cooked savoury pastry and dough products, e.g. pizzas, sausage rolls
· raw ready-to-cook products, e.g. uncooked products comprising or containing either meat, poultry or fish, with or without raw prepared vegetables
· vacuum or modified atmosphere packs, e.g. raw ready-to-cook duck breast packed in modified atmosphere

( I assume the above is not claiming  to cover all  possibilities :smile: )

 

 

@ Teem - Does the 100degC / 15 min process time have any particular Literature support ? (specific juice unknown but "lethality" seemed high compared to hot fill methods)

 

PS - also noticed this comment -

 

Food ‘use by’ and ‘best before’ dates have an important role in helping consumers to decide when food is safe or of sufficiently high quality to eat. Short shelf-life products, where the deterioration is caused by the growth of microorganisms, are labelled with a ‘use by’ date, while ambient stored products with a long shelf-life have a ‘best before’ date.

https://www.soci.org...-onto-the-table

 


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


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Posted 17 April 2021 - 06:53 PM

@Charles

 

No literature support, its just the process requirement. Those parameters aren't necessarily set for food safety though they serve that purpose. The product is a herbal tea decoction that needs to boil long enough get the extract in solution. It's then sweetened with pasteurised honey and fruit juice

 

It's not hot fill because they go in plastic bottles which collapse on cooling (creating an aesthetic problem) hence the forced need to cold fill. 

 

Interim lab reports have come back with TVC and Enteros to be <10 at P+1

Still awaiting data for Yeasts and Mould

 

Do you reckon these would grow at pH 3? pathogenic bacteria aren't acidophiles are they? 

 

 

 

@pHruit

 

we dont want to use preservatives as we feel the product will lose its herbal / "green" appeal. And we know we would have to trade on life for that sadly

 

Thank you for the EU Regulation reference :) I've had a look at it and it does clearly guide on how to decide a Use-By product  i.e. products which "...... are highly perishable and are therefore likely after a SHORT period to constitute an immediate danger to human health....." but how short is short to decide a product is classed Best-Before?

 

This Canadian link https://inspection.c...7/1332357545633 by @Scampi does  say less than 3months. If i were to use this a guide, then it looks I will have to wait for Full Shelf life results to come in before we print labels and launch .....a 6 month wait  :(

 

Like i said earlier, similar products out there use Best-Before even pure fruit juices! I'm just worried about post BB consumption and liability .....and we clearly don't want to poison anyone. Certainly, they would become unsafe at some point?  Why then do these products use Best-Before instead of Use By

 

Some products are clearly Use-by or Best Before. It's borderline products like ours that's giving me a slight headache.  

 

Thank you both :)





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