21 replies to this topic

[cazyncymru]

We currently use paper towels here, but i have been asked to look at using hand driers.

In the past, i did some justification work regarding hand driers and found that they were only good for spreading germs about the place! Since then, hand driers have come on a long way.

Does anyone have any justification data regarding the suitability of use of hand driers in production areas?

thanks

Caz

[tsmith7858]

Sani-Dri appears to have a new system that just came out. It uses ozone to kill all bacteria while drying the hands in 15 seconds.

Not sure of the payback but it sounds like the sanitary question was handled.

[Simon]

The Dyson Airblade has been out for a while, I had a go the other day in our local shopping centre. Very effective and quite quick. To be honest though I prefer paper towels and from an old fashioned dispenser and not a wave and wait and wait and...

http://www.dysonairblade.com

[GMO]

I've heard so much about these new Dyson driers and I think they really sound like an option. It might be worth contacting Dyson direct as it would be a huge untapped market they could tap into if they funded some research not only on the time to dry but also if they could prove it didn't produce the same aerosol contamination effects as other driers they'd be recommended by the retailers left, right and centre.

I always thought though (and this is from dimly remembered sections of "hygiene for management") that the argument also went that apart from the aerosol argument and the fact people give up and walk off wiping their hands on their bottoms with air driers, the action of rubbing your hands on a towel also reduced loading.

I suppose you could design an experiment collect a load of handswab and environment swab data beforehand and get a trial unit in, getting some staff to use the traditional method some using the new method, doing swabbing and environment swabbing to check if one is more effective than the other and whether the environmental loading is increased.

The real pain could be if a retailer would ever buy into it. I suspect getting your retailer technologist(s) involved in the project early on (tactfully asking their opinion on any trials to be performed) might get their buy in better than presenting the results as a done deal.

[Simon]

New evidence suggests electric hand dryers in public toilets pose health risk

The electric hand dryers found in thousands of public toilets can dramatically increase the
number of bacteria on people’s hands after washing them and contaminate the washrooms
where they are installed. Scientists at the University of Westminster discovered the shocking findings during a study in which they compared the numbers of bacteria on subjects’ hands before and after they had washed them and then dried them in a public washroom using either paper towels, a traditional warm air dryer or a new-style jet air dryer.

Study: Electric Hand Dryers vs. Paper Towels

OK the research was reported (commisioned? paid for?) by The European Tissue Paper Industry Association but at least it's science.

[VIVIAN]

My graduation students had a pratical work about the use of hand dryers versus paper towels.
It results in a article presented in 2000, in a specialized congress,here,in Brasil.
Using conventional microbial tecniques and methods, as well as statistc aproach, they were able to demonstrated that, yes, hand dryers had a very bad performance.
All ambiental microorganims, from floor to walls, get in movement by the air flux,and so the total count at the hands became very high.
Using paper towels, the total count of mesophyle bacteria at hands stays at secure number.
We know that at a "green world " of those days, we are demanded at downsizing custs and natural resourses.
On the other side, the use of unrecicled paper means security at food processing.
Whith one we shoud choose?
Maybe different uses,at different places in a same ffod plant,after a very well conducted risk analysis.

[Simon]

My graduation students had a pratical work about the use of hand dryers versus paper towels.
It results in a article presented in 2000, in a specialized congress,here,in Brasil.
Using conventional microbial tecniques and methods, as well as statistc aproach, they were able to demonstrated that, yes, hand dryers had a very bad performance.
All ambiental microorganims, from floor to walls, get in movement by the air flux,and so the total count at the hands became very high.
Using paper towels, the total count of mesophyle bacteria at hands stays at secure number.
We know that at a "green world " of those days, we are demanded at downsizing custs and natural resourses.
On the other side, the use of unrecicled paper means security at food processing.
Whith one we shoud choose?
Maybe different uses,at different places in a same ffod plant,after a very well conducted risk analysis.

Wow that's really interesting Vivian. Is there any way you can post the article here for members or provide a link to it on the net?

[GMO]

I think Caz's point was that the evidence was cut and dried 10 years ago but the air drier technology has moved on and should be revisited. Has anyone reviewed the more recent electric hand drier innovations?

[Simon]

I think Caz's point was that the evidence was cut and dried 10 years ago but the air drier technology has moved on and should be revisited. Has anyone reviewed the more recent electric hand drier innovations?

Yes I was coming to the same conclusion. I have forwarded this thread to dyson to see if they have any data. If they come back with anything I will post it here.

Regards,
Simon

[Simon]

Yes I was coming to the same conclusion. I have forwarded this thread to dyson to see if they have any data. If they come back with anything I will post it here.

Regards,
Simon

I never did get a reply from Dyson, but I was speaking with a very clued up BRC auditor yesterday and he says that Dyson cleaners are very quick, effective, hygienic and actually save money over paper towels over a year especially if you also include the labour of storing, moving and changing the rolls. He also said traditional hand dryers are rubbish for want of a better word.

Regards,
Simon

[Jean]

“Blow dryers should not be used because they accumulate microorganisms from toilet aerosols, and can cause contamination of hands as they are dried by the drier (Knights, et al., 1993; Redway,et al., 1994)”.

“Simply, from a cost point of view, warm air hand dryers save up to 80% of the cost of supplying and maintaining a washroom with paper or roller towels.
Carried out by Environmental Resources Management (ERM), an independent research organisation, the streamlined Life Cycle Assessment (LCA) study concludes that the use of hand driers results in a smaller environmental footprint than the use of paper towels, based on a number of assumptions such as the use of two paper towels per dry and the use of a hand drier for an average of 30 seconds per dry. The study suggests that, with regards to environmental performance, paper towels should not be chosen in preference to the hand air drier modelled within the research.
http://www.airdri.co...fety/index.html

http://gogreen.theco...or-hand-towels/

I am confused, which one should I opt for??

[Simon]

I am confused, which one should I opt for??

Hi Jean, It’s nice to see you gracing the forums again; your presence and input are most welcome.

With regard to your doubt, according to my contact disposable towels have always been preferred to hot air dryers because of the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of hot hand dryers. But that has all changed with the Dyson.

Regards,
Simon

[Jean]

Dear Simon,

Hi Jean, It’s nice to see you gracing the forums again; your presence and input are most welcome.

I am glad too and thank you.

With regard to your doubt, according to my contact disposable towels have always been preferred to hot air dryers because of the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of hot hand dryers. But that has all changed with the Dyson.

I would like to know if Dyson has done any validation for the effectiveness of their product with respect to the microbial load.

[rosemary]

Hi Caz

Did you ever make a decision on the dyson? We too are now considering but I am not sure what the consensus is in the industry.

Rosie

[cazyncymru]

Although I was reluctant, we eventually bought 4 hand driers, for various areas.

I swab each one, and the floor beneath, for Listeria each month. So far, so good.

Biggest issue I had was convincing the staff. not easy to stick your head in there if you want to dry your face!!!

[Simon]

@ Jean I contacted Dyson but they never came back with anything.

I suppose the best validation is from users such as Caz. Did you get Dyson Caz or some other?

Regards,
Simon

[Jean]

@ Jean I contacted Dyson but they never came back with anything.

I suppose the best validation is from users such as Caz. Did you get Dyson Caz or some other?

Thank you Simon & Caz. I believe Dyson should provide the microbiological validation report for what they are claiming their product has advantage, IMHO.

[Lanser]

We trialed some Mitsibushi hot air driers but ran into problems at shift change, break times etc. We estimated we'd need a minimum 5 driers at each station to give the same staff throughput as paper towels.

[cazyncymru]

Thank you Simon & Caz. I believe Dyson should provide the microbiological validation report for what they are claiming their product has advantage, IMHO.

We went for the Dyson

I have attatched the literature they gave me

Caz x

Attached Files

•  Dyson.pdf   865.64KB   53 downloads
•  Dyson_2.pdf   847.76KB   44 downloads
•  Dyson_ccfra.pdf   1.22MB   43 downloads

[Tony-C]

With regard to your doubt, according to my contact disposable towels have always been preferred to hot air dryers because of the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of hot hand dryers. But that has all changed with the Dyson.

I have always preferred to have both available as I believe hand drying is quicker and more efficient if you use a paper towel and a hand drier.

Regards,

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 23 December 2009 - 02:05 AM.

[GMO]

I used a Dyson air blade in a shop recently and I have to say I was slightly disappointed. There were water drops on the floor from the machine and it took three passes to get my hands totally dry (I suspect many ops would only use one). They do seem to be better than other air driers but I'm not 100% convinced yet.

[GMO]

Just revisited this thread as we're looking at purchasing an ultra speed drier but not the air blade. Anyone have experience of any of the others? I've got hold of the Campden BRI article.