20 replies to this topic

[Simon]

It was my Nephews tenth Birthday today so we called round and had a nice barbecue; I asked for some Coleman’s English mustard for my steak sandwich. It duly arrived, I spread some on and ate up. A few minutes later my Father in Law said, “sheesh I’m not having any of that mustard it has an expiry date of July 2004”. Imagine my surprise. After that I examined the mustard and it did smell a bit strange. It didn’t say “use by” or “best before” or “expiry” on the label it just had a date on it.

The ingredients are... Water, Mustard Flour, Sugar, Salt, Wheat Flour, Spice, Citric Acid.

Should I expect to get ill?

Regards,
Simon

[itay.sh]

Should I expect to get ill?

Should you expect to get ill, you will get ill. It's like all those cases of someone who ate a bug and then fell ill- there's nothing in the food itself, only psychosomatic reaction.

and now, for the technical answer:

2004 is a long, long expiry date ago. You shouln't be afraid of any microbial contamination- all the germs that once been there are long dead. Perhaps even their toxins have denatured.

That doesn't mean the product is as good as new. There are many factors that can change during long storage. The first and most critical is the flavour and smell of the product. That already happened.

In a condiment, I reckon, there are two major "spoilage" issues. The first one is a development of off-flavours during time, due to oxidation, chemical breakdown and other lovely issues. The second one is phase seperation- any emulsion in the product is long gone, and you see the oil floating on top (I once cleaned a sample closet and found a long expired jar of Tehini- seasame paste. It had a clear seasame oil layer on top).

Now, don't let my words confune anyone- eating and expired product can cause discomfort, as there are oh-so-many things that could have happened there during the years. But no major spoilage is expected in a overly industrialized product such as this mustard. You have better chance to digest a listeria from the steak than some horrible, acutly toxic breakdown substance.

[FSSM]

Simon... Simon???

Are you still in there???

Well if you are not alive then this information might not be true:

...Mustard oil was reported over half a century ago to exhibit antifungal activity [2,3,4]. The more aromatic PHBIT appeared to be far more fungiotoxic than the aliphatic ITs. The antifungal effectiveness of AIT was demonstrated over the past 30 years by Zsolnia [4] and Hejrnanskowa [5] and more recently by Tsunoda [6]. Evidence accrued to-date points to AIT and other volatile isothiocyanates being specifically effective against the germination and growth of several fruit pathogens [7]. In the vapour phase, AIT from brown mustard proved a potent antifungal agent when included in modified atmosphere packaging of different food samples [8]. AIT was particularly effective against mycotoxin producing molds such as Aspergillus flavus, Penicillium citrinum and Fusarium graminearum.

Mustard oil has been shown to inhibit the growth of several yeasts. A recent study showed AIT in mustard oil exerted lethal effects on Neurospora yeast in mustard seed [9]. AIT also inhibited the growth of yeast when added to fruit juices at a concentration of 1%. This may explain why the Romans used mustard oil to prevent fermentation of fruit juices or finished wines [10].

The antibacterial activity of ITs differed substantially and in some cases was strain specific. For example, benzyl (BIT), [Beta]-phenylethyl (PEIT), m-methoxylbenzyl (MTBIT) and p-methoxybenzvl (PMBIT) isothiocyanates were all found to be more effective against Staphylococcus aureus compared to a series of aliphatic ITs. AIT and phenyl isothiocyanate (PIT), however, were both found to be ineffective against Streptococcus pyrogenes, Streptococcus aureus or three gram-negative bacteria at levels that severely inhibited the growth of yeasts and fungi [4]. A recent study by Delaquis and Mazza [11] showed the effect of vaporised AIT on food born pathogens was dose dependent. The growth of microorganisms was inhibited at concentrations above 500ng/ml. The log number of killed bacteria was proportional to the AIT concentration for Salmonella typhimurium and Listeria monocytogenes, but almost unchanged for Eschrichia coli. Some ITs, such as BIT, exhibit antibiotic activity in vitro, and are sold as pharmaceuticals for the treatment of infections of the respiratory and urinary tracts [12-15]. ...(page 5 at the link i found it).

Mustard: chemistry and potential as a nutraceutical ingredient.
By Cui, W.
Publication: Canadian Chemical News
Date: Saturday, November 1 1997

I found it at: http://www.allbusine...a/649153-1.html

Also, should water activity might be important for this issue?

Regards,

FSSM

[Simon]

Well you will be pleased to know I'm still alive and well. I thought I would leave it a good 24 hours to make sure before declaring my well-being as there's nothing worse than declaring your health only to suddenly go and die.

Well I have to say I didn’t expect my light-hearted post would create so much detailed analysis from the scientists, but I’m glad it did. Thank you so much for your input, I feel much better now.

By the way there was no emulsification it just smelled a bit. Maybe before chucking it away I should have tried it as an insect repellent or perhaps a cure for Restless Leg Syndrome, maybe Hair Restoration, Hemorrhoid Cream, Cold sores or Athletes foot cure. Five years is a long time to wait for mustard to mature and I fear I may have missed a Research and Development opportunity there.

By the way I’ve just be informed by the Wife that all of the meat was out of date as well…and that’s no joke.

Regards,
Simon

[FSSM]

Hi!!!



Good to know you are still in there.

Sorry about the meat, meaybe it´s time to start looking for a new Admin.

FSSM

[Simon]

Hi!!!



Good to know you are still in there.

Sorry about the meat, meaybe it´s time to start looking for a new Admin.

FSSM

He, He, He...not just yet. No more barbecues for a while. Anyway Summer is officially over in the UK, we've had our annual two weeks of nice weather.

Regards,
Simon

[itay.sh]

Hemorrhoid Cream

Now, for THIS use of mustard I'd buy a plane ticket to the UK!

[FSSM]

Itay.sh, I don´t think it´s a good idea traveling by plane, you will be asked to sit and fasten your seatbelt. Ask Simon if he still have that mustard jar to send it to you.

Regards,

FSSM

[Simon]

A further sensible thought on this. To my mind I think suppliers of food products such as condiments and other long life / low risk stuff put unnecessarily short shelf life’s on their products e.g. “once opened consume within two weeks” or something like that. I believe they do this to frighten consumers into throwing away perfectly good food products in order to encourage more frequent purchases.

What do you think?

[FSSM]

Simon:

Maybe you are right! or maybe nobody want´s to take any risk of being sued because somebody missed to read expiry date. Or they just don´t take care of conducting shelf-life analysis.

Sometimes consumer just don´t follow instructions on how to take care or use the product (intended use).

Consumers are dangerous in this sense.

FSSM

Edited by FSSM, 11 July 2009 - 03:23 AM.

[Simon]

Simon:

Maybe you are right! or maybe nobody want´s to take any risk of being sued because somebody missed to read expiry date. Or they just don´t take care of conducting shelf-life analysis.

Sometimes consumer just don´t follow instructions on how to take care or use the product (intended use).

Consumers are dangerous in this sense.

FSSM

I agree consumers can be very silly and not read labels properly.

[FSSM]

Not silly, just not sufficiently cautious to check wat they are consuming, but not fair to blame them, they are supposed to be eating something safe.

FSSM

Edited by FSSM, 13 July 2009 - 09:30 PM.

[Tony-C]

English mustard for my steak sandwich. It duly arrived, I spread some on and ate up. A few minutes later my Father in Law said, “sheesh I’m not having any of that mustard it has an expiry date of July 2004”.
Imagine my surprise. After that I examined the mustard and it did smell a bit strange. It didn’t say “use by” or “best before” or “expiry” on the label it just had a date on it.
The ingredients are... Water, Mustard Flour, Sugar, Salt, Wheat Flour, Spice, Citric Acid. Should I expect to get ill?

Not knowing how much of a hypochondriac you are Simon, I thought I'd wait a while before posting.

My brother was ill last year from eating mustard that had been left in the fridge for a while after opening.

We concluded it was more than likely caused by mycotoxins produced by moulds. Moulds are capable of growing at low temperatures and pH. The onset of food poisoning was fairly rapid which is typical of toxins. Once a jar is open it is quite easy for it to be contaminated. I think squeezy bottles are probably a better option.

Even better option buy new at a greater frequency i.e. less than every 5 years!

Regards,

Tony

[Simon]

Not knowing how much of a hypochondriac you are Simon, I thought I'd wait a while before posting.

My brother was ill last year from eating mustard that had been left in the fridge for a while after opening.

We concluded it was more than likely caused by mycotoxins produced by moulds. Moulds are capable of growing at low temperatures and pH. The onset of food poisoning was fairly rapid which is typical of toxins. Once a jar is open it is quite easy for it to be contaminated. I think squeezy bottles are probably a better option.

Even better option buy new at a greater frequency i.e. less than every 5 years!

Regards,

Tony

Fridge, fridge, this wasn't even kept in a fridge. Ambient for 5 years. Now I'm either some sort of cyborg or very lucky or something. Mind you I am from up North. I want to know more about bacteria, viruses and other toxins. The subject for a new thread I think.

Thanks Tony.

Simon

[Tony-C]

Isn't the ambient temperature up north the same as a fridge then?



Regards,

Tony

[Simon]

Isn't the ambient temperature up north the same as a fridge then?



Regards,

Tony

Yeah I think it is. Very cold all of the time, damp, dark and depressing (especially if you get locked in). Just like a fridge. Very perceptive Tony.

Regards,
Simon

[sskubisnac]

Surely the fact your still with us to pose the question, answers the question itself! Just imagine how much longer you could have kept it if you had put it in the fridge. Are you sure it was Coleman's English Mustard and not 'Ye Olde Mustard of Coleman's' . . . .

[Charles.C]

Dear sskubisnac,

Nice one

On the other hand, the design of the production facility may explain why no ill-effects as yet –

http://www.rhe.uk.co...olemans_mustard

OT (mainly) - And you have to admire the "promotional" ability of this company also –

http://findarticles....9/ai_n21146543/

Rgds / Charles.C

[Tony-C]

OT (mainly) - And you have to admire the "promotional" ability of this company also –

http://findarticles....9/ai_n21146543/

Rgds / Charles.C

Hi Charles

I am trying to think of the connection between mustard and your linked article above which is :

SEX DOCTOR: ISSUE OF THE WEEK ..CHRISTMAS PARTIES

Perhaps you can help me out

Regards,

Tony

[Charles.C]

Hi Tony,

My link has a small advert in it also ? Not same for you ?

Rgds / Charles

added - Just in case google formatted the page specially for me -

 mustard_power.jpg   28.37KB   27 downloads

[sskubisnac]

Hi Charles

I am trying to think of the connection between mustard and your linked article above which is :


Perhaps you can help me out

Regards,

Tony

The only similarity I can think of is that both Coleman's Mustard and the "Sex Doctor's Christmas Party" are both quite hot affairs .......