82 replies to this topic

[Aegean]

So- Has anyone heard anything about v6? I understand some initial training will be taking place at the end of 2010?

Hi all;

Is there any genious news on this v6? In the following weeks I will give a lecture on BRC Global Food (as a general view) at the university and if the news are on the way that it gonna be a next version, I would be happy to get some more informations on this ,(so that I can use them as an updated info in my lecture ).

ps: please do not forget to give the name of the source :)

thanks

[ding]

I just heard one piece of news for version 6 that the audit days would be at least 2 days. One of the guy in the working group just told me.

[Madam A. D-tor]

I have heard that this was advised. I think it is a good thing. I am always running and hurrying to see al those requirements and there is no time for indepth audits.

I hope the IFS will follow. Otherwise it is unfair competition between these two standards.

[Simon]

Two days, twice the cash. Customers won't put up with a price increase, so stealth rise built into the standard. Not us mate.

I would go for 1 day unannounced sample audits that spend more time checking what is happening where it matters on the shop floor rather than checking documents in an office.

Just my 2p worth.

[GMO]

Good point. I find it strange that SAI global auditors are given a target of 3 hours in the factory in a 1 and a half day's audit. In some factories, 3 hours is a long time, in others, it barely scratches the surface.

[smithyj]

Hi folks
BRC Global Food Standard is benchmarked against the GFSI standard, currently version 5, but due to be re-issued during 2010. It would seem logical that any tweaks to the GFSI guidance document will be incorporated into BRC v.6.
I've also heard on the grapevine that the standard audit will be increased from 1.5 days to 2 days, although I think it's early days!

Another couple of thoughts ...
The current version of BRC takes alot of the HACCP requirements from the CCFRA Guideline 42 - this was re-issued about 12 months ago, and so we could see extra requirements filter through, such as the training requirement for HACCP Team Leaders increased to Level 4.

I'm guessing that Tesco have been more involved in this new version, and this may lead to some of their requirements being added to the BRC standard possibly with a reduction in their TFMS auditing activities (I seem to remember that the contracts taken out by suppliers to Tesco to audit to the standard expire in 2011)!

... I can hardly wait.

[Simon]

Hi folks
BRC Global Food Standard is benchmarked against the GFSI standard, currently version 5, but due to be re-issued during 2010. It would seem logical that any tweaks to the GFSI guidance document will be incorporated into BRC v.6.
I've also heard on the grapevine that the standard audit will be increased from 1.5 days to 2 days, although I think it's early days!

Another couple of thoughts ...
The current version of BRC takes alot of the HACCP requirements from the CCFRA Guideline 42 - this was re-issued about 12 months ago, and so we could see extra requirements filter through, such as the training requirement for HACCP Team Leaders increased to Level 4.

I'm guessing that Tesco have been more involved in this new version, and this may lead to some of their requirements being added to the BRC standard possibly with a reduction in their TFMS auditing activities (I seem to remember that the contracts taken out by suppliers to Tesco to audit to the standard expire in 2011)!

... I can hardly wait.

Thanks for your input smithyj and welcome to the forums.

Does anyone know exactly when the new version will be out and whether it is on schedule?

[D-D]

We make 'low risk' ingredients usd at very low levels and it often seems odd to implement certain clauses in an environment that looks more like a chemical plant (knife control etc). So I wonder if V6 will be broader to reflect implementation further up the 'food chain'...?

[DebD]

Hello All,

Food Manufacturer article this week says version 6 is due late next year.

Link to the full article:

http://www.foodmanuf...spoil-the-broth

Version six

It was too early to say what v6 of the BRC standard - due out for consultation early next year - would look like, said BRC senior technical services manager David Brackston.

But his instinct was that there would not be any significant changes. The focus would most likely be on the “protocols by which the standard is audited and managed”, he predicted.

“We’ve not even started the rewrite yet, but my gut feeling is that the standard is not a million miles away from where it needs to be.”

The BRC plans to consult on a draft of v6 early next year and will publish the revised version in summer/autumn 2011, he said. It will then be effective for audits from early 2012.

One to Look forward to!

[Jason H.Z.C.]

Hello All,

Food Manufacturer article this week says version 6 is due late next year.

Link to the full article:

http://www.foodmanuf...spoil-the-broth

Version six

It was too early to say what v6 of the BRC standard - due out for consultation early next year - would look like, said BRC senior technical services manager David Brackston.

But his instinct was that there would not be any significant changes. The focus would most likely be on the “protocols by which the standard is audited and managed”, he predicted.

“We’ve not even started the rewrite yet, but my gut feeling is that the standard is not a million miles away from where it needs to be.”

The BRC plans to consult on a draft of v6 early next year and will publish the revised version in summer/autumn 2011, he said. It will then be effective for audits from early 2012.

One to Look forward to!

Dear Debd,

Well, thank you so much for the significant information. Because I am not from E.U., I am not familiar with the website you provided. Can that be trust? One product of our C.B. is BRC audit. So I would like to know more news. And I have to acknowledge that the restriction to BRC audit in China is much less than the restriction to IFS audit. Because the qualification to a BRC auditor is very easy. The candidates need not to attend a formal examination organized by the BRC authority, but instead they only need to attend the training and examination hosted by a BRC authorised trainer. Thus, in China there are at least sevral dozens of BRC auditors. The result of such existing is that the competition between the CBs located in China begin to present and finally leading to decrease the quality of audit(Because the auditors have to compromise to the clients otherwise the clients would consider to change another CB instead).
I have no idea that what about the current situation in the other countries? Better? Worse? Or as same? Personal thinking at least in UK the situation is better.

Any new updating relevant to BRC v6 will be appreciated a lot
Best regards,
Jason

[DebD]

Hello,

Food Manufacturer is a UK publication, I have never had any problems with this site and you can use it to register for regular e-mail update newsletters which is how I found out about the BRC. It is mostly UK related information but may be useful to you in the future.

DebD

Dear Debd,

Well, thank you so much for the significant information. Because I am not from E.U., I am not familiar with the website you provided. Can that be trust? One product of our C.B. is BRC audit. So I would like to know more news. And I have to acknowledge that the restriction to BRC audit in China is much less than the restriction to IFS audit. Because the qualification to a BRC auditor is very easy. The candidates need not to attend a formal examination organized by the BRC authority, but instead they only need to attend the training and examination hosted by a BRC authorised trainer. Thus, in China there are at least sevral dozens of BRC auditors. The result of such existing is that the competition between the CBs located in China begin to present and finally leading to decrease the quality of audit(Because the auditors have to compromise to the clients otherwise the clients would consider to change another CB instead).
I have no idea that what about the current situation in the other countries? Better? Worse? Or as same? Personal thinking at least in UK the situation is better.

Any new updating relevant to BRC v6 will be appreciated a lot
Best regards,
Jason

[Miroslav Suska]

Hallo,

some info you may find here http://www.foodmanuf...spoil-the-broth
The BRC plans to consult on a draft of v6 early next year and will publish the revised version in summer/autumn 2011. It will then be effective for audits from early 2012.

Regards,

Miroslav

So- Has anyone heard anything about v6? I understand some initial training will be taking place at the end of 2010?

[Charles.C]

Dear Jason,

Thanks for yr comments which are interesting. Unfortunately we don't get much input from yr area so difficult to compare / evaluate. One thing for sure is that the location should represent a considerable business opportunity for auditing companies, particularly to USA maybe...

Rgds / Charles.C

[Jason H.Z.C.]

Dear Debd and Charles.C,

Thank you for introduction to the website, now it is obviously that the information from such website can be trust.
And about the query raised from Charles.C, would you like to specify your question a bit in detail, then may be I can give your relevant information in China. e.g. You mentioned that not much inputs, I 'd like to know what inputs you are intersted in? I just wanted to express that the so many BRC auditors in China result in the competition between the certification bodies located there. The competition lead to the decrease of quality of BRC audits.

And about U.S., I am very intrested in the current influence of BRC in the U.S.area. Because as I know that U.S.also has its local standard called SQF 2000 for post-gate production. So does U.S. retailers like BRC standard? Or it is just a normal standard there?

Any one would like to express your comments?

Best regards,
Jason

[nitac]

I just heard one piece of news for version 6 that the audit days would be at least 2 days. One of the guy in the working group just told me.

I have had a V5 audit last 2 whole days and only got 4 minors (all paperwork based!) this was with SAI global, I have recently had 2 BRC audits with "A.N.Other" auditing body that were not so "in depth" so to speak.

I am hoping that BRC are going to look at those that issue the certificates as well as those that need them, in light of the recent issues with Nat Brit I think this may be the case. BRC V6 needs to be audited to an agreed standard, for example "X" amount of time on HACCP as this is fundamental. and more time on the shop floor as this is where the food is actually produced not in a paperwork system. You can have fantastic procedures and bits of paper to say people are trained, but you need to observe this in practive and not just collect the paperwork! I have also had non conformances for things with one auditing body that another one has allowed. I understand auditing is a "sampling excersise" but surely there needs to be a level playing feild to start with?

As a manufacturer; I like the challenge of BRC,BUT I think it needs to remember what it was put in place for. I still have unanounced audits from retailers.. so whats the point of BRC? It needs to regain the prestige it appears to have lost and I can only attribute this to sites being issued grades that the retailers do not agree with. I know of one site on "red status" with one retailer, and just failed another retailer audit with 6 criticals and over 30 other non conformances that got a BRC grade A with 5 minors.... Think that sums it up really.

[Charles.C]

dear Jason,

e.g. You mentioned that not much inputs, I 'd like to know what inputs you are intersted in?

I only meant that there are currently very few posters from China on this forum (2-3 maybe) so very few other experiences to compare to yr own.

Regarding yr query on USA, there are several threads here with some info. about this, maybe try searching SQF2000 (I don't think the search engine works for 3-letter words)

Rgds / Charles.C

[Welo]

Probably be about £90 give or take a few quid. It is a huge money making exercise. Of course it’s important to review and revise standards as part of continual improvement taking into account changes in laws, operating environment, emerging food safety threats and best practice etc. How often should this be done? When was the last update?

Importantly will this be a minor tweak or a major overhaul, I would wager a minor upgrade that maybe could include more on food defence and security. Maybe there are some gaps there. The thing is it is mandatory to have a copy of the latest version of the standard as part of certification.

What do other members think of this and what do you expect to see changed?

Regards,
Simon

Simon,
When is the cut off date for V5? We are trying to get V5 certified now, it will more than likely be the very end of this year, possibly Jan 2011. Any word on that, if you are aware?

[Simon]

Simon,
When is the cut off date for V5? We are trying to get V5 certified now, it will more than likely be the very end of this year, possibly Jan 2011. Any word on that, if you are aware?

When a new version is released there is some time before it becomes fully effective. If version 6 was released in January 2011 (and I'm not sure it will be) then you could still be audited to version 5 up until around the middle of the year. Concentrate on version 5 requirements and then when you have the certificate you will have a good few months to get acquainted with the version 6 requirements before your next audit.

[Welo]

When a new version is released there is some time before it becomes fully effective. If version 6 was released in January 2011 (and I'm not sure it will be) then you could still be audited to version 5 up until around the middle of the year. Concentrate on version 5 requirements and then when you have the certificate you will have a good few months to get acquainted with the version 6 requirements before your next audit.

THanks for the info Simon!

[saguym]

Oh yes mandatory uannnounced audits that would be a big one. Mind you it's the way the retailers are going and essentially it's their standard.

Not sure what you mean re bringing the BRC Packaging in line?

Regards,
Simon

Another issue is

Maintaining Audit Experience

"Each auditor shall undertake at least 5 audits per year against the Global Standard for Food Safety to maintain category and scheme knowledge". This requirment is exagerated IMO and should be reduced to 3 audits per year as it is for BRC/IOP standard.

Regards,

Saguym

[Brian Fowler]

Cannot be end of 2010 as the new version is not yet under formal discussion nor in draft. Expect 2011 spring as earliest release date

[Simon]

Cannot be end of 2010 as the new version is not yet under formal discussion nor in draft. Expect 2011 spring as earliest release date

What changes do you expect to see Brian?

[smithyj]

Timetable for BRC Global Food Standard Version 6 announced.
The official timetable is:
Consultation: January 2011
First Draft: April 2011
Issued: Summer 2011
Used for audits: January 2012

I can also confirm that "draft, drafts" (clumsy I know, but what else could I call it) have already been circulated to Certification Bodies, Organic accreditation bodies etc, and the thing that is jumping out at the moment is that there is discussion about a requirement for some form of madatory Unannounced auditing. Maybe this is an attempt to get some credability back with the retailers.

I hope that clears things up for the time being.

[Charles.C]

Dear smithyj,

Thks for this and welcome to the forum!

requirement for some form of madatory Unannounced auditing

Was the typo intentional ? If so, nice one !

Actually i thought this was already available as an option and in fact necessary for aspiring (top level) audit lovers , aka masochists ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[GMO]

Dear smithyj,

Thks for this and welcome to the forum!


Was the typo intentional ? If so, nice one !

Actually i thought this was already available as an option and in fact necessary for aspiring (top level) audit lovers , aka masochists ?

Rgds / Charles.C

Yep but sounds like they're considering changing it from optional to compulsary which I would be happy with tbh. Would save me from 3-4 months of nagging a year and might actually make my sernior management realise they can't just pick up technical systems when they feel like it.