13 replies to this topic

[Anish]

Hi,

Whom do you really consider when you think about Senior Management Commitment in a big company?.

All the operational level managers or only the top most Sector Managers - like Vice Presidents / Deputy Generals / General Manager's & Managing Director.

[Jomy Abraham]

I think its depends on each organization. A designation Matrix can be defined to specify different levels and grades of each deisgnations. So in the Same Grades, we can define different levels. For example

Level A - A commin term can be defined for level A
Grade 1 - CEO
Grade 2 - president
Grade 3 - VP

Level B ( Directors)
Grade 1 - Sr.Direcotor
Grade 2 - Director

Similarly for Supervisors
Level E
Grade 1- Regional Supervisor
Grade 2- Shift Supervisor
Grade 3- Floor Supervisor

Among these levels and organization can define the Sr.Management, middle management, Junior Management etc...

Looking for better ideas

Regards
Jomy Abraham

Hi,

Whom do you really consider when you think about Senior Management Commitment in a big company?.

All the operational level managers or only the top most Sector Managers - like Vice Presidents / Deputy Generals / General Manager's & Managing Director.

[QLD]

no matter how big the company imo the plant manager needs to be on board otherwise it is just a plain struggle.

[DebD]

Hello,

The BRC standard implies that Senior Management refers to those who can have a direct affect on the provision of resources, capital expenditure or contract review. (Section 1.4 for those of you who have the standard). This is quite easy for us as a single site company as it is quite celar who these people are but I'm not sure how this would scale up to larger / multisite places. It would seem like it comes back to who controls the money!

[D.R. Tirtasujana]

Hi Anish,

In my understanding, the senior management refer to the very top people (number one guy) in the company and/or the people who have authority to act as the top decision maker in the company.

If the company is small, sometimes it could even involve the owner. If the company is big and have many sites, usually management system is implemented in each site. If we are talking about implementing standard such as ISO 22000, each site will implement the system. So, the top guy are there in each site and they are the Top Management (Senior Management) for their own site.

Regards,
-Rizki-

[Simon]

I agree with the conclusions on this discussion thread, on a similar note you may want to review the older topic below:

Who is the most senior member of your HACCP team?

Regards,
Simon

[rosie]

Its so rare you'll spot it as soon as you see it!

Rosie

[faisal rafique]

Dear all,

I agree with Deb D, person(s) who controls all important matters of company is senior management.
Faisal Rafique

[GMO]

I think the intention of BRC is that people more senior than the site Technical Manager should also have some interest in quality and food safety. It's also very specific that the most senior person on site should attend the opening and closing meeting, however, much of the management commitment section will be fulfilled by other senior people showing an interest (they wouldn't expect a chief executive to show up to a quality review meeting but would expect a site manager or ops manager to do so.)

[Jomy Abraham]

What do you thinkd about SHOW OFF Managers/GM/CEOs who are just utilizing the Certifications for Business Developments. How should the Food Safety team handle these managers....( ex: Managers who wants the food safety team to prepare fake reports and close all loop holes during the audit)

Regards
Jomy Abraham

I think the intention of BRC is that people more senior than the site Technical Manager should also have some interest in quality and food safety. It's also very specific that the most senior person on site should attend the opening and closing meeting, however, much of the management commitment section will be fulfilled by other senior people showing an interest (they wouldn't expect a chief executive to show up to a quality review meeting but would expect a site manager or ops manager to do so.)

[D.R. Tirtasujana]

Hi Jomy,

It is an interesting thing when we are discussing about Management Commitment
There are, indeed, some companies (top management) that want to get certified... ONLY Certified (NOT to implement) the system. They see the certificate just as a Marketing Tool.

Well... As a people who are invovled in food safety, I personally would say this is a bad thing.

And for the people who are in the team which have such top management, the options below are the actions I could think possible to do:

1. Change
Try to make the management aware that the most important thing in management system is the implementation. The certification can come anytime by inviting any certification body audit if implementation is already in place. Some idea to to change the management's mind are :
- discuss face to face with top management
- show the management real example of bad thing happen when the system is not in place
- ask the external party to discuss with the top management (consultant/certification body)
- ask the customer to come and conduct audit
This could take some time, but... for those who are"creative" and "never give up", I believe they can create a lot more idea


2. Stay
Some people are "safe players". They could just follow what management wants (and still get the salary every month), and at the same time learn how to implement the system in good way (for their own personal development and benefit for their future).


3. Continue the career in another place
When our vision cannot meet the company vision, and we cannot change the management's mind, and cannot live with it either... I think it is the right time to say, "there's no other way than to say... Goodbye"


Just a thought... Useful perhaps

Regards,
-Rizki-

[Jomy Abraham]

Just imagine that organization has different project in different areas of the country. The organization wants to get the ISO 22000 certificate. Imagine, all locations are in Security Alert area except one and it requires additional pass to get into such locations. ISO 22000 is 100% complied in the location outside the security alert area. system is also executed in all the locations inside the security alert areas. But the infrastructure requirements are not 100% complied and the management dont want to invest in this year. Auditor is from another country and he cannot get a Pass to go in the security alert area unles he stay in the country for 2 weeks.

If you imagine this situation, how do a food safety team member will act...

1. will auditor compromise to conduct audit in one location and issue the certificate
2. Do food safety team leader create a situation infornt of the auditor to select the location outside the security alert area?

How could we react to such management and third party auditors?

Rgd
Jomy Abraham

Hi Jomy,

It is an interesting thing when we are discussing about Management Commitment
There are, indeed, some companies (top management) that want to get certified... ONLY Certified (NOT to implement) the system. They see the certificate just as a Marketing Tool.

Well... As a people who are invovled in food safety, I personally would say this is a bad thing.

And for the people who are in the team which have such top management, the options below are the actions I could think possible to do:

1. Change
Try to make the management aware that the most important thing in management system is the implementation. The certification can come anytime by inviting any certification body audit if implementation is already in place. Some idea to to change the management's mind are :
- discuss face to face with top management
- show the management real example of bad thing happen when the system is not in place
- ask the external party to discuss with the top management (consultant/certification body)
- ask the customer to come and conduct audit
This could take some time, but... for those who are"creative" and "never give up", I believe they can create a lot more idea


2. Stay
Some people are "safe players". They could just follow what management wants (and still get the salary every month), and at the same time learn how to implement the system in good way (for their own personal development and benefit for their future).


3. Continue the career in another place
When our vision cannot meet the company vision, and we cannot change the management's mind, and cannot live with it either... I think it is the right time to say, "there's no other way than to say... Goodbye"


Just a thought... Useful perhaps

Regards,
-Rizki-

[Jules]

I have always considered the Food Safety / Technical team to be the moral conscience of the food industry. The food industry are of course the senior managers.

I would be very unhappy continuing to work with anyone who had asked me to falsify a document / report / audit; my reaction would probably be to start to look for work elsewhere and collect together reports (newspaper / trade mag) showing what goes wrong when there is no senior management commitment to food safety.

Can you get the seniors to accept accountability for any of the areas that your customer would audit? Can they be made to conform that way? Certainly do your best to change the culture as noting will improve without your will. If not, keep your head down, work by your own ethical code and look elsewhere for work. Just a thought, time a leaving date for just before an audit (tee hee).

[Tony-C]

Just imagine that organization has different project in different areas of the country. The organization wants to get the ISO 22000 certificate. Imagine, all locations are in Security Alert area except one and it requires additional pass to get into such locations. ISO 22000 is 100% complied in the location outside the security alert area. system is also executed in all the locations inside the security alert areas. But the infrastructure requirements are not 100% complied and the management dont want to invest in this year. Auditor is from another country and he cannot get a Pass to go in the security alert area unles he stay in the country for 2 weeks.

If you imagine this situation, how do a food safety team member will act...

1. will auditor compromise to conduct audit in one location and issue the certificate
2. Do food safety team leader create a situation infornt of the auditor to select the location outside the security alert area?

How could we react to such management and third party auditors?

Rgd
Jomy Abraham

An auditor will issue a certificate for the site they audit if it is compliant not the others. If the security clearance is 2 weeks then you will need to book the auditor for the 2 weeks plus the time you need for the audits. You could discuss the problem with the certification body and see if they need to audit other companies so you could share the costs.

Regards,

Tony