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#1 Anish

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 02:05 PM

Dear All,

Our plant is an old plant - the roof is old, but all the happenings machineries, floor inside buildings all are new and well maintained.
Actually while doing installation of new plant machineries, they didnt change the roof (asbestos), but built a false roof below the asbestos roof and renewed the place of installation as required.
The main problem is not for the places where we have false roofing but where old roof is still existing - this is exactly
where our 10 lines of Juice plant is located. Management do not want to touch the roofing - as it will take long time to do the work and
it can affect production work also. The cleanliness of the floor & wall area is maintained by the team - but could not able to do anything for the roof.
We could not reach the roof easily as the height is more - and to be frank we could not see the condition clearly - as the light fixtures are almost hanging 10 feet below the roof.

Can anyone share your experience to solve similar kind of issue.

Regards
anish


Edited by Anish, 14 February 2011 - 02:06 PM.




#2 Simon

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:42 PM

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#3 Inesa

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:12 PM

Dear Anish,

I'm a bit terrified... I don't understand why management doesn't see this roof as a hazard?? First of all Asbest is an illegal material and is very dangerous to your health. Small particles of it is collecting in your lungs. I think this is a violation of safety of personnel!! Posted Image Posted Image
Is asbest legal in Kuwait?


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#4 Inesa

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:45 PM

Dear Anish,

I would print this and show to my management. Here is also something about dust control, but probably not much helpful...


Attached File  Asbest-forAnish.pdf   917.68KB   76 downloads

Take care Anish...
Yours
Inesa


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#5 D-D

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 09:46 AM

I would look at this carefully. I am no expert but as far as I know asbestos is only an issue when it comes to taking it out, demolition or otherwise working with it e.g. putting holes through it. As long as it is in a good state and not disturbed it should not be the end of the world.
Asbestos is not used now as a construction material but I don't think it is 'illegal' to have a builidng in which it is already there.



#6 Tony-C

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 05:05 PM

I would look at this carefully. I am no expert but as far as I know asbestos is only an issue when it comes to taking it out, demolition or otherwise working with it e.g. putting holes through it. As long as it is in a good state and not disturbed it should not be the end of the world.
Asbestos is not used now as a construction material but I don't think it is 'illegal' to have a builidng in which it is already there.


Neither am I but I think you are right. From the HSE:

Remember, as long as the asbestos is not damaged or located somewhere where it can be easily damaged it won’t be a risk to you.

Regards,

Tony

#7 Dr Ajay Shah

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:45 AM

One of my client built his factory in an old shell and the first thing we did was to get rid off the old asbestos roof. This was done by experts who specialised in handling asbestos from an Occupational Health and Safety (OHS). I am absolutely astounded to learn that management at your site did not consider this. At least the local council should have come to check the site before one could improve or modify it.

Do things get approved as part of Corruption in India??? :o

For your information Inesa, Anish is from India and not Kuwait.


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#8 Inesa

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 01:50 PM

We're talking about an old roof which condition is unknown! No one can see it. What about crevices in it and dusts comming out?? No one came and checked it! It's true maybe it's not that dangerous if there are no dusts if ti's in good condition, what I strongly doubt if it's an old building Posted Image

I found this in eur-lex by searching asbest Opinion of the Economic and Social Committee on 'Asbestos'

Official Journal C 138 , 18/05/1999 P. 0024:

1.4. In the EU, only two of the three commercially used asbestos fibres (blue and brown asbestos) and the products containing them are completely banned since January 1986. White asbestos (chrysotile) is prohibited in fourteen product categories, but it is still used in asbestos cement products (e.g. drain pipes, roofing materials, wall claddings - some 85 % of use volume), friction materials (9 %), textiles, seals and gaskets (6 %) and in a few very specialized applications as medical filters.

1.5. Nine Member States (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, The Netherlands, Sweden) have now imposed a ban (with exceptions) on the first use (production, transformation, sale, importation and marketing) of asbestos. Ireland and Luxembourg support a ban in principle. The Government of the UK is presently engaged in consultations about the introduction of a ban. The Governments of Greece, Portugal and Spain, countries which have important asbestos cement industries, still support the status quo. They say that they do not accept the scientific reasons underlying the position of the other Member States and point to the adverse economic effects of a ban.



http://eur-lex.europ...9IE0330:EN:HTML





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#9 Inesa

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:01 PM

I've found this one!!!!!


http://ibasecretaria...on_ban_list.php




Anish you can find your country here as well... Posted Image










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#10 Inesa

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:22 PM

For your information Inesa, Anish is from India and not Kuwait.


I know she is from India Posted Image



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#11 saguym

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:56 PM


As far as I am aware there is no specific asbestos related requirement in BRC, ISO 22000 or HACCP and the general protection of food from contaminants would apply.

In the UK Asbestos is controlled by The Control of Asbestos at Work Regulations 2002.

This legislation aims to protect workers who may come across asbestos in the course of their work. Regulation 4 places a duty on persons in control of maintenance activities of non-domestic premises.



These requirements could be adopted as corrective actions in respect of factory "to do" list and are as follows;



a) To take reasonable steps to find materials in premises likely to contain asbestos and to check their condition;

b) Presume that materials contain asbestos unless there is strong evidence to suppose they do not;

c) Make a written record of the location and condition of asbestos and presumed asbestos-containing materials and keep the record up to date;

d) Assess the risk of the likelihood of anyone being exposed to these materials; and

e) Prepare a plan to manage that risk and put it into effect to ensure that:

i. Any such material is kept in a good state of repair

ii. Any material that contains or is presumed to contain asbestos is, because of the risks associated with its location or condition, repaired or if necessary removed: and

iii. Information on the location and condition of the material is given to anyone potentially at risk including contractors.



An asbestos register should be compiled irrespective of whether repair or refurbishment is planned.





#12 Inesa

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:00 PM

But let me ask you, if a government of the country has banned asbest what is that with ISO OR BRC to do???


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#13 GMO

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:40 PM

Asbestos isn't a food safety risk but it is a risk to the workers if it's damaged in any way. Did you know that many UK homes contain asbestos in artexing? Probably several people who have posted on this thread have been sat underneath some asbestos without knowing! I would think a sensible longer term plan should be to remove it (safely) but if I understand correctly, your concern now is how to inspect and clean?

Might be an (expensive) external agency cleaning job with people who have the expertise.



#14 Inesa

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:28 PM

Dear GMO,

what about e.g., slaughter house and asbestos dusts, or some place for cheese maturation?
Wouldn't it be a food safety risk? I always thought that everything what is dangerous to humans (chemicals) can cause also a food safety risk. Posted Image


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#15 Dr Ajay Shah

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 02:10 AM

I totally agree with the comments raised by Inesa. This is a health and safety issue is first and foremost. Without sorting this out one cannot go ahead with producing food. The local council has to approve the building to ensure that it is suitable and this happens in most countries. One does not need to have an Asbestos register. What good is that going to do to anyone. People working in the environment will start suffering from Asbestosis and soon there will be claim over the company. We have had incidents of large cliams by workers in places where asbestos were found and they suffered from asbestosis. the unfortunate thing is that people loose their lives.

Anish you should threaten them with what has happened in other developed countries but I am aware that corruption is very high in India and China alike.


Edited by Dr Ajay Shah, 12 March 2011 - 02:11 AM.

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#16 Tony-C

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 04:48 AM

what I strongly doubt if it's an old building Posted Image


:huh: Speculation

#17 saguym

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 05:08 AM

But let me ask you, if a government of the country has banned asbest what is that with ISO OR BRC to do???


As you have quoted the ban is on" the first use" of asbestos, while I am refering to an already installed roof, as it is mentioned in the first issue of this specific forum.

#18 Inesa

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 08:48 AM

:huh: Speculation

A citation from first post:
"Actually while doing installation of new plant machineries, they didnt change the roof (asbestos), but built a false roof below the asbestos roof and renewed the place of installation as required.
The main problem is not for the places where we have false roofing but where old roof is still existing - this is exactly
where our 10 lines of Juice plant is located. Management do not want to touch the roofing - as it will take long time to do the work and it can affect production work also.



Why doesn't management want to touch the old roofing and build a false one if an old one is in good condition??????????



Edited by Inesa, 12 March 2011 - 09:17 AM.

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#19 Inesa

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:35 AM

As you have quoted the ban is on" the first use" of asbestos, while I am refering to an already installed roof, as it is mentioned in the first issue of this specific forum.


Sorry if I'm wrong but I thought new factory has to be approved by a governmental authorities before it starts it's production, as Dr Ajay also wrote before. They come and check if factory, including construction materials, fulfills minimal requirements (GMP's). They might find it as an issue an old asbestos roof hidden under the other false roof, esspecially if asbestos is under a certain control or a bann. That's why I coudn't understand what it has with ISO or BRC certification to do.

With respect
Inesa





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#20 Tony-C

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 12:13 PM

They might find it as an issue an old asbestos roof hidden under the other false roof, esspecially if asbestos is under a certain control or a ban. That's why I coudn't understand what it has with ISO or BRC certification to do.

With respect
Inesa


I have worked at several factories with old asbestos roofs and it has never been raised as an issue by BRC.

Regards,

Tony

#21 Inesa

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 02:32 PM

Hi Tony-C,
have you also worked at factories with false roofing? Why do they build that? Posted Image
And I have a suspicion that a roof is in this case same as ceiling, as Anish is concerned about cleanliness of production area. They have floors and walls under control, but can't see what's above them, cause it's too high. I still have a bad feeling about all this.. Posted Image


Edited by Inesa, 25 March 2011 - 02:33 PM.

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#22 Tony-C

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 03:19 PM

Hi Tony-C,
have you also worked at factories with false roofing? Why do they build that? Posted Image
And I have a suspicion that a roof is in this case same as ceiling, as Anish is concerned about cleanliness of production area. They have floors and walls under control, but can't see what's above them, cause it's too high. I still have a bad feeling about all this.. Posted Image


Yes what people tend to do is use food grade materials inside the buidling to improve standards and reduce the risk. It is cheaper than rebuilding.

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#23 RMAV

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:39 AM

Hi Tony-C,
have you also worked at factories with false roofing? Why do they build that? Posted Image
And I have a suspicion that a roof is in this case same as ceiling, as Anish is concerned about cleanliness of production area. They have floors and walls under control, but can't see what's above them, cause it's too high. I still have a bad feeling about all this.. Posted Image


While I am not a fan of a false ceiling/roof, it is often able to improve poor conditions. I find a couple of operational advantages to the false ceiling: improved lighting and fewer surfaces to clean (pipes, conduit, etc. are often above the false ceiling).

Asbestos aside, cleaning ceiling structures is challenging and time consuming. I find the best method is scissor lift (or personnel lift) and a small, lightweight, but powerful vacuum with a so-called pipe cleaning attachment. For areas you cannot reach, there are extension poles up to 30 feet or more with various types of brush attachments available.

Scissor lift is best as you can get close to what you are trying to clean, and in your case, the lift will get you above the lights where you can see what you are cleaning. A headlamp or "flood light" may be beneficial here.

Whether vacuuming or brushing, you will certainly be knocking dust down to the floor. It is best the plant is not in operation when you clean these overhead structures, or at least be an adequate distance away from production activities.

I have yet to see a facility (other than very small) where you would have the ability to clean overhead structures all in one day. Draw a map and divide it into sectors and establish an appropriate schedule for these sections. An appropriate schedule would take into account the risk, the soils, the accumulation time, etc.




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