Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

Need help developing a validation record

Share this

  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic
- - - - -

shabani

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 16 posts
  • 0 thanks
0
Neutral

  • Canada
    Canada

Posted 15 March 2011 - 03:42 AM

Hi everyone,

I think I have to make a Validation record. Can you give me more information on how to make it and when to use it?


  • 0

Dr Ajay Shah

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 318 posts
  • 106 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Australia
    Australia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 15 March 2011 - 05:34 AM

Validation means provide evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness of a system of controls.

You will need to look at your process and then work out for what controls you need validation e.g. for cooling, freezing etc. You need to give more information before any memebers can assit you.

Regards

Ajay


  • 0
Dr Ajay Shah.,
BSc (Hons), MSc, PhD, PGCE(FE)
Managing Director & Principal Consultant
AAS Food Technology Pty Ltd
www.aasfood.com


Simon

    IFSQN...it's My Life

  • IFSQN Admin
  • 12,908 posts
  • 1370 thanks
922
Excellent

  • United Kingdom
    United Kingdom
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manchester
  • Interests:Married to Michelle, Father of three boys (Oliver, Jacob and Louis). I enjoy cycling, walking and travelling, watching sport, especially football and Manchester United. Oh and I love food and beer and wine.

Posted 20 March 2011 - 08:53 PM

On another thread Tony kindly posted a sample validation record


  • 0

Get FREE bitesize education with IFSQN webinar recordings.
 
Download this handy excel for desktop access to over 180 Food Safety Friday's webinar recordings.
https://www.ifsqn.com/fsf/Free%20Food%20Safety%20Videos.xlsx

 
Check out IFSQN’s extensive library of FREE food safety videos
https://www.ifsqn.com/food_safety_videos.html


Cathy

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 280 posts
  • 44 thanks
19
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 27 March 2011 - 01:19 AM

In case you need a little nudge - verification (in general terms) asks - "Are we doing what we said we would do? " Validation asks- "Is it working?"
So for your critical control points and each pre-requsiite program you should ask- how do we know and demonstrate that this is working? The best answers are summaries of data from the program.


  • 0
Cathy Crawford, HACCP Consulting Group
http://haccpcg.com/

Dr Ajay Shah

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 318 posts
  • 106 thanks
6
Neutral

  • Australia
    Australia
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:37 AM

I agree with the comments posted by Cathy.


Ajay Shah


  • 0
Dr Ajay Shah.,
BSc (Hons), MSc, PhD, PGCE(FE)
Managing Director & Principal Consultant
AAS Food Technology Pty Ltd
www.aasfood.com


Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5689 thanks
1,550
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 27 March 2011 - 06:17 PM

Dear Cathy,

Validation asks- "Is it working?"


Maybe this is an American definition.?

It seems rather at variance to the Codex version to me in respect to the chronological aspect.

Rgds / Charles.C

  • 0

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Cathy

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 280 posts
  • 44 thanks
19
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:48 PM

Please elaborate Charles - thanks


  • 0
Cathy Crawford, HACCP Consulting Group
http://haccpcg.com/

Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5689 thanks
1,550
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:48 PM

Please elaborate Charles - thanks

Dear Cathy,

In general I prefer minimalist definitions like yr suggestion but in this case I feel a little caution is necessary.

It's only my interpretation but, to me, yr "definition" implies an activity which is primarily post implementation of the relevant control measure. Codex adopts an opposite view (eg see the attach. in post #9 of thread below).

I think yr suggestion is sort of SQF "style".

IMO, the SQF standard (internally) messed this topic up quite well. For example this thread has some details -

http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__42912

The reality is that there exists a whole range of "validations" depending on the particular business (including from memory both Pre- and Post- formulations). In the food scene, I suspect that the Americans (politely) prefer home-grown definitions (and apparently Australian also :smile: ) where possible rather than Codex. This is perfectly OK of course but the net result is that in various places an apples vs oranges discussion ensues.

Rgds / Charles.C

  • 0

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Cathy

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 280 posts
  • 44 thanks
19
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:09 PM

Thanks Charles - that helped a lot and I see your point. Validation includes activities or information collected prior to implementation. Validation documents include those that show the science behind the decisions that led to control limit and other design decisions. This is proof that the system should work and is designed properly. The data that flows once the process begins is further validation. Sometimes for training I do simplify. In the future I will include in my informal definition both - will it work and is it working? It is best to keep on the same page no matter where we live since the food market is global.



  • 0
Cathy Crawford, HACCP Consulting Group
http://haccpcg.com/

MQA

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 224 posts
  • 132 thanks
19
Good

  • Australia
    Australia
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Interests:Good food, excellent coffee, home sweet home, cherished friendships, valued work, and a fantastic city.

Posted 03 April 2011 - 03:30 AM

Hi shabani,

What is the Verification Record for?

Once you have developed your validations and verifications, you will also need to develop A Verification Schedule.

Cathy & Charles C: my input on the Validation & Verification debate.

Methods for Validation of Critical Limits
  • Validation = Current (proof what you are doing is effective)
  • Temperature checks of product, processes or equipment
  • Microbiological tests
  • Visual checks of personnel, processes, and finished product
Methods for Verification of Legal, Food Safety & Quality Controls
  • Verification = Past (proof you are doing what you say you are doing)
  • Review of reports, analysis, records, and audits

Hi everyone,

I think I have to make a Validation record. Can you give me more information on how to make it and when to use it?




  • 0

... helping you achieve food safety & quality assurance...

Melbourne Quality Assurance | Australia
www.melbourneqa.com | janette@melbourneqa.com
Facebook | Twitter


Cathy

    Grade - SIFSQN

  • IFSQN Senior
  • 280 posts
  • 44 thanks
19
Good

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:34 PM

At first, I really liked your perspective, but then wondered - what micro test is not a review of the past?


  • 0
Cathy Crawford, HACCP Consulting Group
http://haccpcg.com/

MQA

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 224 posts
  • 132 thanks
19
Good

  • Australia
    Australia
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Interests:Good food, excellent coffee, home sweet home, cherished friendships, valued work, and a fantastic city.

Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:01 PM

Cathy,

Actual conduct of the tests is your validation - because you are taking a "photograph" of a moment of time.

The review of these tests, amongst trend reports and other analysis is the verification.

But really, it's such a fine line, isn't it?


At first, I really liked your perspective, but then wondered - what micro test is not a review of the past?




Edited by JAKMQA, 03 April 2011 - 09:19 PM.

  • 0

... helping you achieve food safety & quality assurance...

Melbourne Quality Assurance | Australia
www.melbourneqa.com | janette@melbourneqa.com
Facebook | Twitter


Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5689 thanks
1,550
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 04 April 2011 - 05:42 PM

Dear Jakmqa,

I suspect Cathy's comment was referring to the Codex "chronological" principle as per post#8, an aspect which your earlier post left unanswered (or at least i think it did :smile: ?).

Rgds / Charles.C


  • 0

Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


MQA

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 224 posts
  • 132 thanks
19
Good

  • Australia
    Australia
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Interests:Good food, excellent coffee, home sweet home, cherished friendships, valued work, and a fantastic city.

Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:41 AM

Oopsies. :smarty:

And yeah, you're correct. I did leave that unanswered.

Well then:

Methods for Validation of Critical Limits
  • Validation = Current (proof what you are doing is effective)
  • Temperature checks of product, processes or equipment
  • Microbiological tests
  • Visual checks of personnel, processes, and finished product
  • Codex: Validation: Obtaining evidence that a control measure or combination of control measures, if properly implemented, is capable of controlling the hazard to a specified outcome.

Methods for Verification of Legal, Food Safety & Quality Controls
  • Verification = Past (proof you are doing what you say you are doing)
  • Review of reports, analysis, records, and audits
  • Codex: Verification: The application of methods, procedures, tests and other evaluations, in addition to monitoring, to determine whether a control measure is or has been operating as intended.

Hmmm, Charles. I still think SQF has stood by Codex's meaning of the two words. :dunno: The SQF likes to dribble on and on (a bit like me, really).

And personally, I follow:
  • Codex Alimentarius (Global)
  • FSANZ, Woolworths (Australian)
  • SQF (was Australian! Now belongs to USA)

Dear Jakmqa,

I suspect Cathy's comment was referring to the Codex "chronological" principle as per post#8, an aspect which your earlier post left unanswered (or at least i think it did :smile: ?).

Rgds / Charles.C




  • 0

... helping you achieve food safety & quality assurance...

Melbourne Quality Assurance | Australia
www.melbourneqa.com | janette@melbourneqa.com
Facebook | Twitter




Share this

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users